Universal fire

FroDawgg

Well-Known Member
#1
I didn't see this posted elsewhere, so I figured this would be a good conversation.

As recently revealed, the Universal fire of 2008 was a lot more damaging than reported at the time (I had never even heard of it until now), with 500,000 pieces of work forever lost, including masters from Tupac, Eminem (whose were actually digitally backed up), The Roots, and scores of others.

What of Pac's do you think were burned up and do you think they were the only copies of the masters? Do you think maybe that's why we haven't been getting unreleased material (original form or not) and what are the chances we'll ever see much from here on out?
 

Kobe

Well-Known Member
#2
I read about the fire.

It seems Universal are not clear with their story about this fire so we'll only have to guess for now.

After a steady release of new music every two years (better dayz broke this trend & it continued right after)...the last 2pac LP was 2006. Fire in 2008 aaaaaaaand no more 2pac LPs after that.

We can only guess.
 

FroDawgg

Well-Known Member
#3
I read about the fire.

It seems Universal are not clear with their story about this fire so we'll only have to guess for now.

After a steady release of new music every two years (better dayz broke this trend & it continued right after)...the last 2pac LP was 2006. Fire in 2008 aaaaaaaand no more 2pac LPs after that.

We can only guess.
Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#4
Why wouldn't they just admit then? Do you think the 2pac estate wouldn't have mentioned this? It would be the largest disaster in the history of music if so many tracks from so many great artists were actually lost forever in that fire. Maybe OG tapes would, but I don't think they'd be such dummies to store all sources of that music in one place there. Most corporations store copies of even their fairly useless data at least in 2 or 3 different physical locations at a time. I somehow don't believe that such monumental recordings wouldn't have several digital backups in different locations, at Universal, and in 2008 when cloud storage was everywhere and it was already dirt cheap to even outsource it.
 

Preach

Well-Known Member
#5
The non dirt-cheap part is converting all that material to digital. Someone would have to do the work and it's probably a lot of man hours. That has to be budgeted. In a world of dwindling return on music sales. Which has been an on-going trend for two decades. And they would have to sell that usage of money to share holders in said world of dwindling returns.

I can perfectly believe that they're that "stupid" to have them all in one place. I wouldn't say it's stupid so much as it's careless, but humans are careless. It should come as no surprise that we would exhibit careless behavior. :p They've probably been saying for decades "one day now, we gotta hire someone to go through all that shit and save it digitally" "yeah man, you're right, but music sales are disappearing thanks to fucking spotify, we gotta put that off for now, next financial quarter, I mean it this time" fast forward twenty years and suddenly the fire hits "oh right, fuck fuck fuck". That would be the most human story of stories.

That has nothing to do with why there hasn't been a 2Pac album though. I actually think it's factually correct to say that online, there's been more leaks happening after the fire, than before. Granted, those didn't come from the masters, but so one thing we know is that Death Row (the new Death Row, while Suge was in jail the second time and before the murder trial) had an FTP server with a copy of like every track they had access to. That was a reference server, but we also know a lot of acapellas were sent to DJs and to Koch by both the estate and Death Row, so digital copies of acapellas are out there. We also know some acapellas are available in layers. So if not every Tupac song, at least many have been turned to digital as part of processes when albums were released. Like for instance, they remixed like 80 tracks for UTEOT, and some of those remixes ended up on BD. Who's "they"? Well, a lot of different people. A lot of tracks had several remixes done of them, and then Afeni would pick the one she liked. Acapellas in layers flying left and right. If they lifted them from the masters, in layers, it stands to reason that they got the instrumental tracks too. It's a cumbersome job to transfer analogue to digital because you have to play on one device, record on the other, and just wait while it plays at 1x speed. If you were gonna do that, wouldn't you just make sure you grabbed anything on the tapes so as to never have to do it again? It's not perfect logic, but that's how I would reason.

What all this suggests to me, is, there's probably digital Tupac material left even if the fire took some Tupac stuff out. Also, I'm not sure why but I have this feeling. There's a difference between master recordings and master copies of released albums. When an album (which consists on songs that were recorded to several master reels) is compiled, a master copy of the album is made for production. Something about the wording in the text gave me the feeling that the storage was a storage of such album masters. They're called "red books" and is used in the copying process of CD albums. If it's the case that the facility stored red books, that means that the master copies of Tupac's albums could be gone, but the master reels with the songs on them could still be stored somewhere else. When Pac was on Death Row, Death Row had the masters, they weren't sending them to a storage somewhere. Remember that story of when Pac tried to get his master with him out of the studio and Suge wouldn't allow it?

The wording in the article sounds layman enough that I'm not sure the journalist is attent to what kind of masters they were storing there. I could be wrong of course!
 
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Preach

Well-Known Member
#7
Actually, come to think of it, knowledgable people on the Pac scene could probably tell you where they are. I've seen exclusive pictures of death row masters stacked in a storage room like in the past year. They're out there somewhere, Universal don't have them.
 

Jokerman

Well-Known Member
#8
Entertainment One acquired the masters from Death Row in 2006. That's two years before the fire. Tupac’s estate sued Entertainment One in 2013 and won the case in Oct 2018. They're supposed to have gotten the masters for all his unreleased music. There’s talk that two albums of new stuff will be coming out soon now that the case is settled.

Meanwhile, what may have been lost in the fire are the materials from his first 3 officially released albums. Possibly first-generation reference reels or cassettes, EQ’ed production masters and/or multi-track tapes.
 
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Tha_Wood

Underboss
Staff member
#10

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