The Headphones/Speakers thread

[dilla]

Seems like we had a thread like this a long time ago but I can't find it and it probably has all outdated information from like 2013 on it, or something.

I'm not a huge audiophile but I do like my stuff to sound as good as it can without breaking the bank.

Throughout the past 5 or so years I've mostly stuck to mid-range audio stuff, nothing over $100. From the stuff that came with iPods and iPhones and the the Galaxy phones I've had over the years to a cheapo pair of Sennheisers and beyond.

I sold the Sennheisers for more than I paid for them but I always wanted a decent set of over-ear headphones.

So I got the Logitech UE 6000, which were one of the best in the price range at the time. I think they were $199 MSRP but I got them from Amazon for $99, or less.

After that, I wanted something I could take with me to school and on trains. Basically more portable, so I looked in to earbuds. I got the Xiaomi Piston 2 from Amazon, but they may have been fake. They sounded fine but within a year, the wire had frayed but it still worked. So I a year later I got an upgrade and this time it was legit because it was from Costco lol. I got the 1More Triple Drivers for $60 or $70.

I was good with them, but I had an itch for wireless headphones too but I wasn't looking to spend money on them. Through some bonus redemption thing from using Samsung Pay, I was able to redeem a year's worth of points for a $50 Samsung gift card. I had held on to that for a while and SlickDeals alerted me to a deal on Samsung's website that most accessories were BOGO free. So the Level U Pros were on sale for $50, and it was BOGO so I got two and just basically paid $10 for taxes and S&H. I gave one to my mom to use on her S7 and I used mine for when I caught up on shows at night before bed. They're great, until one side of the neckband broke. Still works but sometimes it slides off. This happened in the last month or so, so I've been using my 1More Triples more often. The sound is much better but the wire can be annoying in the dark.

For my Mac and iPad, the Beats I got with my Mac from the Back to School event have been my go-tos for gaming and media. They're solid too and the battery life is ridiculous. I think I streamed 4 seasons of GoT in a binge two summers ago on one charge. I think they say 40 hours of life, and it was about that much for me. Now, some BT headphones offer more but I think these Solos are from 2016 or 2017, so I'm not sure if the tech truly was there at that point, but it exceeded or met their claims.

So I'm set now for probably a while. I'll use the Samsung Levels until that band truly snaps and the thing is unusable around my neck. I imagine the Beats last a while, pending an accident. There's a lot of hype for ANC headphones now, and I think Bose lead the industry in that with the QC II but now Sony has had something on the market the last few years with the XM/2/3. I see lots of deals for the latest, the XM3, for $299 and people are going nuts over it. They look really nice but I have no need for ANC. If anything, I need the opposite since I'm sure my lectures and music leak through the backs of my Solos since they're open headphones lol.

But they look nice and they sound nice. I tried the QCs in a Bose store and they were pretty good.

But $349? Maybe one day. If all my headphones take a shit at once and I can justify $300+ for a pair of headphones that would then do everything for me, from music to gaming to video.

So what do you guys use? I saw a few Whats In My Bag? videos and MKBHD had one with the Surface headphones that he said were really good and possibly better than his Bose or Sony's. Doubt it, but...I guess it's all subjective at that price range.

 

[Tha_Wood]

I bought a pair $699 sennheiser head phones about 7 years ago. I'd had them for about 3 months and then this scuzzy session moth stole them from me after we passed out in bed together. I found out later that she traded them for like $100 worth of meth. Since then I just use the headphones that come with my Samsung Galaxy phones I upgrade every 2 years. Last year I did get a $100 pair of Sony over ear headphones which are pretty good if I want to float away listening to music in the dark.

 

[dilla]

I bought a pair $699 sennheiser head phones about 7 years ago. I'd had them for about 3 months and then this scuzzy session moth stole them from me after we passed out in bed together. I found out later that she traded them for like $100 worth of meth. Since then I just use the headphones that come with my Samsung Galaxy phones I upgrade every 2 years. Last year I did get a $100 pair of Sony over ear headphones which are pretty good if I want to float away listening to music in the dark.

lol that fucking sucks. Headphones can hit four figures, too, but I’m not that big of an audiophile.


The ones that we get with our phones are not all that bad especially when portability is concerned. If they’re going in and out of your bag constantly that it’s best to stick with cheap repairs. And the ones that come from phone companies are pretty good for cheap pairs.

 

[Tha_Wood]

Lyds just bought me a pair of PS4 wireless headphones. I'll give em a test out this afternoon.

 

[dilla]

These are the Sony's I was talking about

 

[dilla]

People are going crazy over it on SlickDeals. It's the latest thing that gets posted on there as soon as there's a minor discount. $50 is the most I've seen so far but they're like animals for it.

I feel like @masta247 would own a pair of these, or any ANC headphones, really

 

[Rukas]

I still stand by the Audio Technica ATH-M50x

 

[masta247]

I think I have over 10 pairs of headphones. I love the way good Sennheisers sound. My favorite earbuds are the Sennheiser Momentum In-Ears. They sound excellent, even though they are very dynamic-sounding for Sennheiser headphones. They can be had for $100 but sound about as good as $200-$300 multi-driver earbuds imho. I have the first gen of these, which were more durable though - the new ones skimp on build quality - people complain about the cable coating falling apart with intense use. They sound great though.
For hip-hop, I'd recommend the Sennheiser Momentum series over anything. They are somewhat less balanced than typical Sennheisers, but they make modern music sound vivid, punchy and just great.
I think the Momentum In-Ears give you the best sounding music you can get from a phone, and the results are actually quite great.

I still love the Sennheiser PX100 not only as the ultimate budget headphones, but overall. They were the first headphones that really blew my mind and made me truly love good quality music. I think I bought them for about $50 around 15 years ago. They are super-light, tiny and open, and sound crazy good for the price and their size. There was nothing like them that sounded even remotely as good (that also didn't look crazy, as the legendary Koss Porta Pro technically are also great in a similar form factor and price, but you'll look like you belong on a Stranger Things set, and the Koss headphones pack less punch). 15 years later and the PX100s probably sound better than they did when they were new, and surely much better than whatever you can get for $50 these days. As a matter of fact, I still use them more frequently than any other headphones at home, since they are also by far the most comfortable. Sadly, they were discontinued.

Back in Poland I have my HD650s. They used to be the top of the line Sennheisers, and maybe the most neutral and true-to-original source of music you can find for home listening. Paradoxically, I don't really like them. First of all, surely they make all other headphones sound like garbage afterward. At the same time they are flat sounding and don't give me the same satisfaction I get while listening to some less "natural-sounding" models. I feel like you first get mindblown by the quality, and then get used to it without getting to enjoy the punch that some cheaper models can deliver. I guess I'm not REALLY an audiophile, as I prefer fun over truthful representation of the original, as long as the sound quality isn't shit (ahem, Beats) and they're good enough to give me goosebumps when listening to my favorite tracks.
Also, they require a proper amplifier to do them proper justice. Otherwise they sound even more boring. This is exactly why I didn't bring them with me to Canada. I have more fun listening to the Momentums, with no fancy HD650s ruining the fun, and no need for an amp at home.

I feel like @masta247 would own a pair of these, or any ANC headphones, really

I'm actually not a fan of noise canceling headphones.
I also wouldn't be able to settle for any wireless headphones. I don't want to sound like a headphone snob, but the sound quality really is just way too poor for my ears, and I'd hate having to charge these things. I actually got a pair of Anker's Liberty Air headphones for my girlfriend and myself for Christmas, for the gym. They are probably the first really good in-ear fully wireless earbuds that just work flawlessly, sound better than the Airpods and cost half the price. The sound quality is still on par with ~$20 wired headphones though. That's pretty much the best that current Bluetooth wireless earbuds can do anyway. The Airpods are just wireless Earpods after all, and Earpods are just mediocre earbuds that you get for free with your phone, that cost $15. It doesn't make sense to make better wireless headphones as the currently used compression would ruin the sound anyway.

 

[dilla]

I still stand by the Audio Technica ATH-M50x

Yeah, those are still highly recommended as bargain headphones at around $100 after all these years. I thought no they’ve made a wireless version now, too?

I think I have over 10 pairs of headphones. I love the way good Sennheisers sound. My favorite earbuds are the Sennheiser Momentum In-Ears. They sound excellent, even though they are very dynamic-sounding for Sennheiser headphones. They can be had for $100 but sound about as good as $200-$300 multi-driver earbuds imho. I have the first gen of these, which were more durable though - the new ones skimp on build quality - people complain about the cable coating falling apart with intense use. They sound great though.
For hip-hop, I'd recommend the Sennheiser Momentum series over anything. They are somewhat less balanced than typical Sennheisers, but they make modern music sound vivid, punchy and just great.
I think the Momentum In-Ears give you the best sounding music you can get from a phone, and the results are actually quite great.

I still love the Sennheiser PX100 not only as the ultimate budget headphones, but overall. They were the first headphones that really blew my mind and made me truly love good quality music. I think I bought them for about $50 around 15 years ago. They are super-light, tiny and open, and sound crazy good for the price and their size. There was nothing like them that sounded even remotely as good (that also didn't look crazy, as the legendary Koss Porta Pro technically are also great in a similar form factor and price, but you'll look like you belong on a Stranger Things set, and the Koss headphones pack less punch). 15 years later and the PX100s probably sound better than they did when they were new, and surely much better than whatever you can get for $50 these days. As a matter of fact, I still use them more frequently than any other headphones at home, since they are also by far the most comfortable. Sadly, they were discontinued.

Back in Poland I have my HD650s. They used to be the top of the line Sennheisers, and maybe the most neutral and true-to-original source of music you can find for home listening. Paradoxically, I don't really like them. First of all, surely they make all other headphones sound like garbage afterward. At the same time they are flat sounding and don't give me the same satisfaction I get while listening to some less "natural-sounding" models. I feel like you first get mindblown by the quality, and then get used to it without getting to enjoy the punch that some cheaper models can deliver. I guess I'm not REALLY an audiophile, as I prefer fun over truthful representation of the original, as long as the sound quality isn't shit (ahem, Beats) and they're good enough to give me goosebumps when listening to my favorite tracks.
Also, they require a proper amplifier to do them proper justice. Otherwise they sound even more boring. This is exactly why I didn't bring them with me to Canada. I have more fun listening to the Momentums, with no fancy HD650s ruining the fun, and no need for an amp at home.



I'm actually not a fan of noise canceling headphones.
I also wouldn't be able to settle for any wireless headphones. I don't want to sound like a headphone snob, but the sound quality really is just way too poor for my ears, and I'd hate having to charge these things. I actually got a pair of Anker's Liberty Air headphones for my girlfriend and myself for Christmas, for the gym. They are probably the first really good in-ear fully wireless earbuds that just work flawlessly, sound better than the Airpods and cost half the price. The sound quality is still on par with ~$20 wired headphones though. That's pretty much the best that current Bluetooth wireless earbuds can do anyway. The Airpods are just wireless Earpods after all, and Earpods are just mediocre earbuds that you get for free with your phone, that cost $15. It doesn't make sense to make better wireless headphones as the currently used compression would ruin the sound anyway.

I still can’t remember the name of the Sennheiser I bought seven years ago. They were $100+ but I got them for a fraction of the price from SlickDeals. They weren’t near the best at all that Sennheiser offered but they were still really good and real good on the bass.


I know wireless never sounds as good as wired and it’s been a complaint for years now. I don’t know if it’ll ever catch up to top headphones that are a few years old now but is there really no progress being made in improving sound quality? With all these phones losing headphone jacks and people are moving to wireless, will audiophiles turn their noses up at all wireless headsets and find workarounds to getting their wired headsets plugged in, like adapters and such?

They say noise cancelling is good for libraries and those who travel a lot but I like just not having a wire to worry about when either studying at a desk or watching something in bed. I can get up and move around to do some small things and return without worrying about carrying my phone or laptop with me.

I know the criticism isn’t whether wireless should exist or not and it’s more about sound quality but is there ever going to be a point where we see similar audio quality in wireless and headphones and whatever sound difference there is, we attribute it to the limitations of wireless and not using amps and such?

 

[masta247]

They say noise cancelling is good for libraries and those who travel a lot but I like just not having a wire to worry about when either studying at a desk or watching something in bed. I can get up and move around to do some small things and return without worrying about carrying my phone or laptop with me.

I know the criticism isn’t whether wireless should exist or not and it’s more about sound quality but is there ever going to be a point where we see similar audio quality in wireless and headphones and whatever sound difference there is, we attribute it to the limitations of wireless and not using amps and such?

Noise canceling headphones have their own merits. I'm just not a fan. I have a quiet environment at home, and on the move, passive noise isolation provided by the earbuds is more than I will ever need. As a matter of fact, I prefer being aware of my surroundings. I can also hear the distortion introduced by active noise cancellation and I don't like it - I personally find it distracting.

Wireless earbuds, however, are currently something no audiophile would touch, and apart from better compression methods being worked on, there is hardly much hope in sight yet.
It's not even that they aren't as good as the wired ones, they are just pure horrible in comparison, with the best units comparable to what you get for free with your flagship smartphone, except they will sound like they're constantly playing 96kbps MP3 files due to the compression.

You can actually buy fancy wireless, full-sized headphones that run on high-bandwidth wireless technologies and novelty codecs, and have fancy DACs and higher power AMPs built in that are comparable to what you'd find on a small MP3 player. These are pretty much the only hope, and they are moving in the right direction. The best of these are still in no way as good as even average wired headphones with a good audio source though, but they're fine. Pretty much $350 can get you the quality of decent $70 wired headphones plugged into your modern PC with generic onboard audio (the stock Realtek solutions have gotten quite good!). If you have anything better in your set-up, you will likely get a better experience than any wireless headphones can currently provide. Meanwhile, the absolute best in mainstream wireless, the $500 wireless Sennheiser Momentum 2.0 aren't far off from the $199 wired ones that they succeeded (although the latter will sound significantly better if connected to a proper amp, which is something you can't do with wireless headphones).

For earbuds or regular Bluetooth headphones, we aren't close to having anything that isn't horrible. The sound has to get compressed on the phone, streamed over Bluetooth (which is short range and has horrible bandwidth), decompressed on the wireless earbud (with limited processing power), streamed to the other earbud (further halving the limited Bluetooth bandwidth), converted on a shitty, ultra-low power DAC and amplified. All of those components (plus antennas, drivers themselves etc.) have to fit in an earbud and get enough power from a tiny battery to last for several hours. The sound is horribly compressed, sent wirelessly using a short range/low bandwidth protocol and recreated on horrible components using power amounts that were not meant to be enough to even generate sound as long as a few years back. It's an occurrence ahead of its time that wireless earbuds even exist and work to some extent.

The way I see it, we once thought that phones or portable MP3s were not powerful enough to provide great music quality. It's a matter of time until earbuds become good enough on their own. The components that they use will eventually get better and cheaper, and OEMs will be able to integrate better drivers for the price as well. There's just still a tremendous gap that they have to work with. I don't see it going away in a mere year, two or three. I think years from now they might get "good enough", but even after their quality improves drastically, we will always be comparing them to wired headphones driven with proper players and amps that aren't bound by space and power limitations, not to mention lossy compression of wireless streaming. The best case scenario for wireless headphones is that several generations from now they will get good enough at pretending they aren't that far behind the wired ones, so people decide they sound just good enough.

 

[dilla]

Noise canceling headphones have their own merits. I'm just not a fan. I have a quiet environment at home, and on the move, passive noise isolation provided by the earbuds is more than I will ever need. As a matter of fact, I prefer being aware of my surroundings. I can also hear the distortion introduced by active noise cancellation and I don't like it - I personally find it distracting.

Wireless earbuds, however, are currently something no audiophile would touch, and apart from better compression methods being worked on, there is hardly much hope in sight yet.
It's not even that they aren't as good as the wired ones, they are just pure horrible in comparison, with the best units comparable to what you get for free with your flagship smartphone, except they will sound like they're constantly playing 96kbps MP3 files due to the compression.

You can actually buy fancy wireless, full-sized headphones that run on high-bandwidth wireless technologies and novelty codecs, and have fancy DACs and higher power AMPs built in that are comparable to what you'd find on a small MP3 player. These are pretty much the only hope, and they are moving in the right direction. The best of these are still in no way as good as even average wired headphones with a good audio source though, but they're fine. Pretty much $350 can get you the quality of decent $70 wired headphones plugged into your modern PC with generic onboard audio (the stock Realtek solutions have gotten quite good!). If you have anything better in your set-up, you will likely get a better experience than any wireless headphones can currently provide. Meanwhile, the absolute best in mainstream wireless, the $500 wireless Sennheiser Momentum 2.0 aren't far off from the $199 wired ones that they succeeded (although the latter will sound significantly better if connected to a proper amp, which is something you can't do with wireless headphones).

For earbuds or regular Bluetooth headphones, we aren't close to having anything that isn't horrible. The sound has to get compressed on the phone, streamed over Bluetooth (which is short range and has horrible bandwidth), decompressed on the wireless earbud (with limited processing power), streamed to the other earbud (further halving the limited Bluetooth bandwidth), converted on a shitty, ultra-low power DAC and amplified. All of those components (plus antennas, drivers themselves etc.) have to fit in an earbud and get enough power from a tiny battery to last for several hours. The sound is horribly compressed, sent wirelessly using a short range/low bandwidth protocol and recreated on horrible components using power amounts that were not meant to be enough to even generate sound as long as a few years back. It's an occurrence ahead of its time that wireless earbuds even exist and work to some extent.

The way I see it, we once thought that phones or portable MP3s were not powerful enough to provide great music quality. It's a matter of time until earbuds become good enough on their own. The components that they use will eventually get better and cheaper, and OEMs will be able to integrate better drivers for the price as well. There's just still a tremendous gap that they have to work with. I don't see it going away in a mere year, two or three. I think years from now they might get "good enough", but even after their quality improves drastically, we will always be comparing them to wired headphones driven with proper players and amps that aren't bound by space and power limitations, not to mention lossy compression of wireless streaming. The best case scenario for wireless headphones is that several generations from now they will get good enough at pretending they aren't that far behind the wired ones, so people decide they sound just good enough.

That makes sense. Even high-end wireless OEMs, like Bose or Sony or even Sennheiser don't have sophisticated components right now to just need a phone to have a solid DAC to step up their sound? And have OEMs just abandoned improving audio on their phones and are getting lazy and hoping the craze around bluetooth headphones (AirPods, Bose) will cause people to ignore or deal with the inferior quality for some time until blogs and power users make a bigger deal about it?
I think it was LG or HTC that looked to getting better DACs in their phones a few years back. I think HTC used Beats and LG used something else, but still showed some interest in getting mobile audio to advance further than where it was.

 

[masta247]

That makes sense. Even high-end wireless OEMs, like Bose or Sony or even Sennheiser don't have sophisticated components right now to just need a phone to have a solid DAC to step up their sound? And have OEMs just abandoned improving audio on their phones and are getting lazy and hoping the craze around bluetooth headphones (AirPods, Bose) will cause people to ignore or deal with the inferior quality for some time until blogs and power users make a bigger deal about it?
I think it was LG or HTC that looked to getting better DACs in their phones a few years back. I think HTC used Beats and LG used something else, but still showed some interest in getting mobile audio to advance further than where it was.

If you are using wireless headphones, that completely bypasses the DAC of the phone and relies purely on the DAC in the headphones themselves (which have inferior DACs). All the sound is generated on the headphones, with phone merely transmitting the raw, compressed files (it serves basically as a file server, it isn't doing any audio processing).
Sennheiser, Bose or Sony rely on a lot of third party components to make their wireless headphones. There are many limitations to how much you can fit into headphones and power by a battery the size of a smartwatch battery at best.

Most smartphone makers are relying on DACs that are now integrated with the chipsets, and they've gotten quite good. LG are putting even better DACs in some of their phones - the V30 had a quad DAC, which is as good as it gets, really.
HTC dropped the headphone jack, making DAC quality meaningless and any effort they ever did in improving sound quality is undone.
A good smartphone with a headphone jack will always generate significantly better sound, and wired delivery will always be better than wireless since the sound doesn't have to get compressed and transmitted wirelessly in real time.

The limitations in DAC and audio components are only one major obstacle for wireless headphones.
Another part is that wired headphones are already as good as you can get, there are no limitations to overcome (except of further improving the actual drivers that generate the sound). The path from the phone (or any other audio source) to your ear is as direct as possible and pretty much untouched. With wireless, there will always be obstacles making the path inferior. The bandwidth, latency, range, the need for another lossy sound compression. They will be working on reducing the negative effect of these things on sound quality, but they will never reach parity with a wire.

While it's even more complicated in case of wireless headphones, it's sort of like with cable internet vs wireless internet over the years - at some point wireless got "good enough" so people don't HAVE TO use cable internet or even ethernet cables, but it never reached wired quality in any aspect. Except your router doesn't downsize the cat photos over wifi before you see them on your screen, and wireless sound delivery still does that to your music.

In any case, dropping headphone jacks from phones was done way prematurely at best, and phones that dropped them effectively killed sound quality and the easiest way anyone could obtain it. I see a lot of people using the Airpods these days. They are cool and convenient and technologically a great feat of engineering, don't get me wrong. But they are a very poor sound source and limit their users to low quality music. If your phone had a headphone jack, you could spend half that price to get incomparably better sound quality enabling you to simply enjoy your music so much more.

 

[dilla]

If you are using wireless headphones, that completely bypasses the DAC of the phone and relies purely on the DAC in the headphones themselves (which have inferior DACs). All the sound is generated on the headphones, with phone merely transmitting the raw, compressed files (it serves basically as a file server, it isn't doing any audio processing).
Sennheiser, Bose or Sony rely on a lot of third party components to make their wireless headphones. There are many limitations to how much you can fit into headphones and power by a battery the size of a smartwatch battery at best.

Most smartphone makers are relying on DACs that are now integrated with the chipsets, and they've gotten quite good. LG are putting even better DACs in some of their phones - the V30 had a quad DAC, which is as good as it gets, really.
HTC dropped the headphone jack, making DAC quality meaningless and any effort they ever did in improving sound quality is undone.
A good smartphone with a headphone jack will always generate significantly better sound, and wired delivery will always be better than wireless since the sound doesn't have to get compressed and transmitted wirelessly in real time.

The limitations in DAC and audio components are only one major obstacle for wireless headphones.
Another part is that wired headphones are already as good as you can get, there are no limitations to overcome (except of further improving the actual drivers that generate the sound). The path from the phone (or any other audio source) to your ear is as direct as possible and pretty much untouched. With wireless, there will always be obstacles making the path inferior. The bandwidth, latency, range, the need for another lossy sound compression. They will be working on reducing the negative effect of these things on sound quality, but they will never reach parity with a wire.

While it's even more complicated in case of wireless headphones, it's sort of like with cable internet vs wireless internet over the years - at some point wireless got "good enough" so people don't HAVE TO use cable internet or even ethernet cables, but it never reached wired quality in any aspect. Except your router doesn't downsize the cat photos over wifi before you see them on your screen, and wireless sound delivery still does that to your music.

In any case, dropping headphone jacks from phones was done way prematurely at best, and phones that dropped them effectively killed sound quality and the easiest way anyone could obtain it. I see a lot of people using the Airpods these days. They are cool and convenient and technologically a great feat of engineering, don't get me wrong. But they are a very poor sound source and limit their users to low quality music. If your phone had a headphone jack, you could spend half that price to get incomparably better sound quality enabling you to simply enjoy your music so much more.

So the quad DAC in the LG phone would be pointless if you used wireless headsets with it? And now that so many OEMs have dropped the headphone jack completely, are they basically just making more profit per phone by not having to add a good one and instead just relegating every one to wireless?

And is there a downside in using those USB-C adapters that allow you to plug a headphone jack in there? Obviously you can't charge wired during that time, but does audio suffer due to the adapter or, if OEMS skimped on a DAC, a shitty DAC?

 

[masta247]

So the quad DAC in the LG phone would be pointless if you used wireless headsets with it? And now that so many OEMs have dropped the headphone jack completely, are they basically just making more profit per phone by not having to add a good one and instead just relegating every one to wireless?

And is there a downside in using those USB-C adapters that allow you to plug a headphone jack in there? Obviously you can't charge wired during that time, but does audio suffer due to the adapter or, if OEMS skimped on a DAC, a shitty DAC?

Most phones have a basic DAC regardless, it is integrated into the chipset. If your phone has the Snapdragon 835, 845 or 855 processor, you are already getting a audiophile-grade DAC built in. The only money that OEMs are saving is related to the headphone jack itself, audio wiring and making an additional hole for the jack. It's surely less than 1% of the phone's manufacturing cost, but always something, right? They are also saving a tiny bit of space that hasn't really been utilized well so far (Apple uses part of that space to install a barometer instead, the rest is an empty space). You can actually fit a headphone jack in the current iPhones - there are videos of people adding them themselves with some engineering effort, and they work with the built-in DACs, since the audio wiring is still there inside of the current iPhones - there is just no jack to output the sound.

As for the LG Quad DAC, or any other DAC, or any other audio enhancement that the phone might have, is completely bypassed when using wireless headphones. DACs don't work wirelessly (unless your phone and headphones also had analog radios).

The Apple headphone jack adapters basically have downsized signal converters built in (Dac and amp).
The phones now output raw data to the USB port and the adapters would have to have ghetto sound chips and DACs in them to do all the sound processing work. You can imagine the quality wouldn't be good on most of them, as the adapter essentially becomes your audio player. The Apple adapter is a good implementation though, using downsized iPhone 6 sound chips in the adapter itself that don't sound bad at all, despite obviously not sounding as great as flagship smartphones with built-in DAC and amps do over a headphone jack. It's surprising that they're only charging $10 for the adapter though, all things considered. My guess is they were trying their best to reduce the backlash related to the removal of headphone jacks.
The Earpods have their own DAC and amplifier as well, and so do every headphones with USB/lighting plugs. In that sense, they aren't much different than wireless headphones, as they become stand-alone audio players relying solely on downsized audio chips installed into them.

There is a lot of wasting going on, since the phones still have good quality DACs in them, yet you are forced to use an inferior DAC of the adapter or headphones. A lot of chips are doubled now, and to include those chips in the headphones also costs manufacturers a lot of money, especially if they decide to use good quality chips. Headphones become stand-alone devices, essentially, with all the costs related to making them so. If your headphones break, you have to buy a whole new "device" now, and there are more elements that can break now.
The best way out of it (if you get a phone without a headphone jack) is to buy a high-quality external USB DAC and carry it with your phone along with good, regular headphones. It's a lot of hassle compared to simply getting a phone with a headphone jack, but you will get the same (or sometimes even better) sound quality while being able to use any superior headphones (where you only pay for the sound quality and can replace just the headphones anytime). Otherwise, you are relying on the adapter or the headphones to produce the sound and even the best of them won't be as good.

 

[dilla]

Most phones have a basic DAC regardless, it is integrated into the chipset. If your phone has the Snapdragon 835, 845 or 855 processor, you are already getting a audiophile-grade DAC built in. The only money that OEMs are saving is related to the headphone jack itself, audio wiring and making an additional hole for the jack. It's surely less than 1% of the phone's manufacturing cost, but always something, right? They are also saving a tiny bit of space that hasn't really been utilized well so far (Apple uses part of that space to install a barometer instead, the rest is an empty space). You can actually fit a headphone jack in the current iPhones - there are videos of people adding them themselves with some engineering effort, and they work with the built-in DACs, since the audio wiring is still there inside of the current iPhones - there is just no jack to output the sound.

As for the LG Quad DAC, or any other DAC, or any other audio enhancement that the phone might have, is completely bypassed when using wireless headphones. DACs don't work wirelessly (unless your phone and headphones also had analog radios).

The Apple headphone jack adapters basically have downsized signal converters built in (Dac and amp).
The phones now output raw data to the USB port and the adapters would have to have ghetto sound chips and DACs in them to do all the sound processing work. You can imagine the quality wouldn't be good on most of them, as the adapter essentially becomes your audio player. The Apple adapter is a good implementation though, using downsized iPhone 6 sound chips in the adapter itself that don't sound bad at all, despite obviously not sounding as great as flagship smartphones with built-in DAC and amps do over a headphone jack. It's surprising that they're only charging $10 for the adapter though, all things considered. My guess is they were trying their best to reduce the backlash related to the removal of headphone jacks.
The Earpods have their own DAC and amplifier as well, and so do every headphones with USB/lighting plugs. In that sense, they aren't much different than wireless headphones, as they become stand-alone audio players relying solely on downsized audio chips installed into them.

There is a lot of wasting going on, since the phones still have good quality DACs in them, yet you are forced to use an inferior DAC of the adapter or headphones. A lot of chips are doubled now, and to include those chips in the headphones also costs manufacturers a lot of money, especially if they decide to use good quality chips. Headphones become stand-alone devices, essentially, with all the costs related to making them so. If your headphones break, you have to buy a whole new "device" now, and there are more elements that can break now.
The best way out of it (if you get a phone without a headphone jack) is to buy a high-quality external USB DAC and carry it with your phone along with good, regular headphones. It's a lot of hassle compared to simply getting a phone with a headphone jack, but you will get the same (or sometimes even better) sound quality while being able to use any superior headphones (where you only pay for the sound quality and can replace just the headphones anytime). Otherwise, you are relying on the adapter or the headphones to produce the sound and even the best of them won't be as good.

That's shitty. I wonder why there's such a big craze for wireless headsets that cost $300+ when even the most expensive ones pale in audio quality. And it's not like ANC isn't available for wired headsets either, so you can always get the Bose-whatever and still be able to get decent quality music, albeit still pricey.

I get the feeling that the people going nuts over the Sonys and the Bose ANC headphones are going to be upset in a year or two in the off-chance a big enough change is made and the headphones of that time are leaps and bounds better than what they are today. $350 is a huge investment and if I ever got wired headphones that cost that much, they better last ten years with proper care for that kind of money. I can't imagine these wireless headsets having the same battery life or whatever, 2 years from now. That's $350 for something you know you'll get the urge to upgrade from within 18 months and you have to worry about selling it after that.

They look real nice and I still love the convenience of wireless over wired, but they certainly aren't worth 5 times the price of a wired equivalent (350 wireless on-par with a $70 wired). I guess my Beats were double overpriced being Beats and then wireless on top of that but I got that included with a Mac purchase so I don't feel too bad about it lol. And they are nice but I think they're $150-200 these days? Wouldn't even look at it at that price.

 

[Preach]

My livingroom speakers right now are two Line 6 PowerCab+ FRFR guitar speakers. They double as speakers for my guitar rig and as a hifi for my TV/computer They're really good and I love the look

 

[dilla]

MKBHD finally got his hands on the WH1000:

 

[THEV1LL4N]

I was using my PX100s at work today only to come home and read Masta's post about them above.

 

[dilla]

@masta247 on Reddit I was visiting in a thread about the S10 event and mentioned my unrealistic hopes of Samsung bundling their Buds with the S10 somehow. Turns out places like India are getting preorder perks with the Buds included.

One can hope for the same for the US. Someone said att was offering them for preordering.

 

[Cooper]

People are going crazy over it on SlickDeals. It's the latest thing that gets posted on there as soon as there's a minor discount. $50 is the most I've seen so far but they're like animals for it.

I feel like @masta247 would own a pair of these, or any ANC headphones, really

I have those