Amy Winehouse Passed Away

tHuG $TyLe · Jul 23, 2011

No what?

She has unintentionally hurt her family, friends, fans due to her death obviously, but she didn't hurt people maliciously, she didn't force her addiction on any one, she didn't tell people to be like her, she had issues, she had problems, this doesn't mean we should disregard her because she had demons that she obviously couldn't control. People have issues like she has, people do die from drug problems, alcohol problems, we shouldn't disregard them because 'they brought it on themselves'.

Jokerman · Jul 23, 2011

I did like her music, she was very talented, and I thought she had a great voice. Better than Adele's, who sounds similar.

Casey · Jul 23, 2011

Bobby Sands said:

Oh fuck off, don't make this about me. I did have compassion for that guy, he was still a fucking moron for reaching out across an massive drop where he would obviously lose his balance and fall.

dilla · Jul 23, 2011

tHuG $TyLe said:

No, man.

http://www.google.com/search?source...gc.r_pw.&fp=6738bf4e4a8a45f4&biw=1104&bih=683

http://www.google.com/search?source...gc.r_pw.&fp=6738bf4e4a8a45f4&biw=1104&bih=683

http://www.google.com/search?source...gc.r_pw.&fp=6738bf4e4a8a45f4&biw=1104&bih=683

I mean, I wouldn't judge her solely on those merits, but I didn't give a shit about her music, she abused drugs, and then the above-mentioned. I don't feel the need to shed any tears over a drug abuser and when I see others do so, I have to ask "why" and figure out their thought process for feeling that way.

It doesn't appear to be a drug OD, but they haven't confirmed, I don't think. She was 27. How much drugs do you have to use to die like that?

tHuG $TyLe · Jul 23, 2011

Coonie said:

Are you really going to use her punching an abusive 'fan' as evidence of her hurting someone? Yes she had an abusive relationship, an abusive relationship that was also I believe the start of her drug problems, her husband/bf Blake was a known drug user before his relationship with Amy Winehouse hit the tabloids. That doesn't condone her actions but she wasn't of sound mind during that time of her life. That doesn't at all make her out to be a terrible person. As I'm sure we both have done things in our life that are pretty horrible.

If you didn't give a shit about her music, cool. I don't really care if people liked her music or not, I haven't really overly mentioned whether I was a fan or not, not really relevant.

When it comes to people shedding tears over a drug abuser, why shouldn't they? A drug abuser to me isn't an evil person, it isn't someone that I personally would ridicule. Amy being an addict doesn't make her an evil person that deserved to die. I'm not shedding any tears over her, but I do feel saddened that her life which wasn't always like this took a turn for the worse where the end result was her death.

You would be surprised how many people die younger than Amy Winehouse due to drug addictions, I know many people who are addicted to drugs and one person who I feel will be dead any day now, she's 19.

But my original post was about people taking the high ground, going on about who cares about Amy, lets care about Norway when the majority of those people won't give a flying fuck about Norway in the next few days.

Casey · Jul 23, 2011

A person beloved to many, succumbed to her personal demons (of which we ALL have some) and died. That's it.

If you can't have compassion for that, then you're probably a spoiled overindulged middle class naive smartass loser with zero life experience who doesn't know what it's like to suffer, doesn't know what it's like to have issues of your own (usually coming from early trauma) that you realize could easily lead you down a bad path, and has never even had someone close to them who suffers from addiction or dependency issues.

Amy was a beautiful and troubled soul with an incredible talent, and her own darkness, amplified by the spotlight, eventually consumed her. It's a tragedy in the most poetic, almost-Shakesperian form.

Flipmo · Jul 23, 2011

Anyone who personally knows a drug addict will understand that it's not easy for them... It's not something you can quit like smoking, it becomes a part of their everyday life. They get disappointed, they use. They get bored, they use. Stressed out, they use. It's a vicious circle which can be nearly impossible to shake off.

dilla · Jul 23, 2011

tHuG $TyLe said:

I think you're using "taking the high ground" incorrectly. I'm not sure what the term would be for what you described, but the feelings you felt, I certainly felt the same way too. I think these are people that are in conflict with themselves. They feel that their self-worth is drawn from the fact that they can point out faults in others thinking. Whether it be what they deem as a priority (Norway or Amy? Debt crisis or Weiner's weiner?). They could be "pretending to take the high ground." They make these statements because they want to appear intelligent or sophisticated, etc. But they most likely read it on Reddit, or some other popular social news website, copy and pasted it, passing it off as their own thoughts and opinion.

Someone mentioned the Japanese earthquake/tsunami ordeal and some low-lifes saying "that's payback for Pearl Harbor." Ask any American these questions:

1. How far away is Hawaii from the continental US.
2. What is the capital?
3. How many islands does Hawaii consist of?
4. How many time zones behind New York is it?

I guarantee you very few Americans could answer those very simple, but important questions regarding Hawaii. Let's not bring in dates of WWII and who fought for which side. Americans would fail there too. They are ignorant and their comments relating the quake to Pearl Harbor are representative of that.

I guess I was pretty harsh with Amy. Feels weird saying that. But I find it hard to sympathize with people who participate in destructive behavior. Myself included. As a smoker, I realize the risks I am taking with my health. By eating whatever I want, I realize the risks those pose too.

If a 500lb fucker dies from a heart attack at the age of 30, people should pity him, not sympathize with him. Why is a drug abuser any different from any other kind of abuser? Why is breast cancer a more widely-touted cancer that needs a cure before, say, lung cancer? Because most lung cancer sufferers are smokers who actively chose to smoke in the first place. That doesn't mean beat the shit out of a smoker or lung cancer patient, but they certainly don't deserve the same sympathy as someone that got it from asbestos or radon poisoning.

If drugs were not illegal today, where would Amy's death have stood? The same place as someone who died from abuse of alcohol? Hmm. Ryan Dunn passed not too long ago. Where did you stand on that?

People who use drugs to escape that far from reality are weak, and I think it's good they're gone. You may not agree with me, nor do I expect you to.

ArtsyGirl · Jul 23, 2011

I feel for the family the most. Obviously sad she wasn't able to overcome the addiction, but the family are where my thoughts are. I have someone in my family who's an alcoholic, and it's the most helpless feeling. There really is nothing you can do to MAKE them help themselves.
She died in a way that didn't put anyone but herself in danger. She deserves some kind of compassion here. And the family certainly does.

Only a matter of time before the finger pointing begins.

Synful*Luv · Jul 23, 2011

RIP to her. I was a huge fan of her music, I like the old school feel that it had. It's sad to see things like this happen to anyone, not just a celebrity.

Chronic · Jul 23, 2011

Coonie said:

What are your thoughts on that weakness? Where does it come from? Can weak people simply become stronger? Etc. Any thoughts you'd like to share.

Synful*Luv · Jul 23, 2011

Chronic said:

May I?

I agree to an extent. I do think ppl who seek refuge from problems in an unhealthy manner (whatever it may be, not just drugs) are "weak" in a sense. Not as negatively as that seems though. To me, something is missing for them. They are perhaps people who missed out on that portion in life growing up where you learn how to deal with problems and move past them. I can see other traits accompanied with this like people are who are "shy" and/or mild mannered, or people who were bullied, or people who have low self-esteem. Doing drugs or some other unstable activity is the easy way out. Lots of people like to take the easy way, unfortunately sometimes that leads to tragedy. I don't think people can simply become stronger, I don't think it's that easy. Someone really close to me is a huge pushover. I love her, she's family, but she is constantly walked over by everyone and her feelings are always hurt. I've been in tears and just completely exasperated talking to her about how to stand up for herself anywhere! At work, at school... even online.. just anywhere and she wants to but she can't. She's an addict herself, not to drugs or alcohol or anything like that.. but to things. She collects the most ridiculous items (not yet hoarding, but close) and they have so much meaning to her. She won't get rid of anything really. It's hard to see. And this gathering of miscellaneous items seems to subconsciously fill an empty part of her. She doesn't want to be how she is.. but it is how she is. She's expressed before how she knows she should stand up for herself but just can't and how miserable she is. I imagine it's the same for most addicts in some respect. Something is missing.. they are unhappy or alone or scared and the easy fix is whatever they are addicted to. I'm also certain that most addicts don't want to be addicts if they know they are addicts. Addiction is a weakness.. but I think many of us suffer from it to some extent. Rather it's from being overweight yet still over eating, or constantly dating the "wrong type" of person but still complaining about not finding a good mate, or not being able to have fun on the weekends unless you're drunk at a bar.. there's some form of addiction on some level for most of us. Some are serious, some.. not so much. I think the key to those of us who don't succumb is a support system and/or other positive things in our lives. As for types of personality, if someone is a "type A" or a more dominant person, I think perhaps it may be easier for them to move forward without becoming addicted. I think, however, making that same move forward for a "weaker" or more mild-mannered person may be a lot more difficult.

This is just what I randomly thought after reading your question. Not a topic I've actually thought about a lot before or anything. Feel free to challenge anything I posted. I love discussion. LOL

dilla · Jul 23, 2011

Chronic said:

I think there is something wrong when someone feels an extreme emotion and decides to harm themselves while using that emotion to justify their behavior.

Suicide and substance abuse immediately come to mind.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying those who use drugs are weak. I clearly said "escaping far from reality" as a non-technical term to define the extent to which the abuse occurs.

There are people who are down in the shitter, look to drugs, see how it affects them and those around them, and snap out of it. I can give you many examples. So what's different for those that continue to abuse drugs? They've given up and their motivation has gone limp and they're lifeless. The drug becomes their crutch and without that crutch, they're pretty much nothing.

I have to go back on a few things I said earlier. She didn't "deserve" to die. I don't think anyone does. But the way Thuggie is angered when people try to do what he says they do (we still haven't come up with the proper name for it, I don't think "taking the high road" is correct, but I can be wrong), I am angered when people hide behind drugs and alcohol to justify their behavior. Or people justify others' behavior with drugs and alcohol, even if said person does not do the same.

I can stoop to Casey's level and make personal shots in multiple threads. But these days I take, what Thuggie calls, "the high road" and let it slide. I can't help I was raised in a proper family with loving parents that gave me what I needed when I needed it, and more. Not having someone I know suffer from addiction in my family does not make me a bad person. Nor does it make me a good person. It shapes my perspective on the situation, however, and I will not pretend to understand what someone goes through in those siutuations and have fake sympathy for people like Ryan Dunn or Amy, or anyone else in the history of the world that died in a pathetic, shameful manner.

If people look at this situation and say "oh, she went for help. It didn't work, though. She couldn't help herself and neither could physicians," then this board needs to take the same perspective it takes with everything else (an atheistic, scientific approach) and understand you can't go into someone's brain, inject happy feelings neurotransmitters, and make them all better again. Naturally, scientifically, psychiatrically, she had a problem that could not be fixed. She continued in her detrimental behavior and natural selection took her out. If we sit here and apply emotions to it, make exceptions to her addictions and actions, then it's something a "low-life religious person would do with God," and shit like that, and it would be extremely hypocritical.

dilla · Jul 24, 2011

Goodnight, everyone. Tapatalk sucks for long, drawn-out essays. This sums up how I probably really feel.

S O F I · Jul 24, 2011

merged, moved to Our Block because it's the most common forum visited.

Jokerman · Jul 24, 2011

For some addicted people, there is evidence of having lowered levels of dopamine activity in the brain which can predispose them to risk-taking behaviors and addictions. Genetics or brain injury can be causes of this imbalance. But this doesn't account for the majority.

In most cases, they're simply a matter of people making wrong decisions. Why does this happen? People make wrong decisions when their essential needs are not being met. Often, they don't even recognize what their essential needs are. Maybe they've simply been honoring everyone else's vision of how they should spend their days, and they have no real sense of who they are. After many years of this a person can get pretty frustrated--and never really understand why.

These are not stupid people making stupid choices when it comes to addictions. Rather, we have smart people, like Amy, who make choices that they're fully aware are foolish. But these are their choices. Whether it's out of frustration, anxiety, or anger, they want to get to a place with the addictive substance that allows them to alter how they feel in the moment. What they must sacrifice to do so--their health, respectability, family trust--becomes secondary to gaining a sense of euphoria, or at least a dulling of their pain. And they're never going to break completely free of their bad-choice-making until they address what's missing in their lives. Instead of thinking through their situation and working toward change, they distract themselves through escapist endeavors. They may gamble or take drugs. They may get into bad relationships or become overly responsible for others. In short, they do something that takes them away from themselves.

Addictive behaviors mask reality. They allow us to disguise the areas of our life that are not working. Any behavior that you perform compulsively can be likened to an addiction in the sense that you use it to avoid feeling and maintain the illusion of control. Talking on the phone can be an addiction. Talking can become a substitute for doing.

Shadows · Jul 24, 2011

Put yourself in the eyes of the addict:

They are convinced to do it, for whatever reason. Then they get someone else to do it, to smoke with someone else.

I never seen anyone self-become an addict and i've been around at least 6 in my family alone. I've lived in hoods to know about others too.

I noticed When my sibling would sober up, and see someone else do it, she'd decide to do it.

I feel it's their way of not only going back to the addiction, but showing that person love, that they probably didn't receive. Possibly confusing love with just something else to do.

My sibling started young and it's what she knew growing up. Apparently, her other friend had no siblings and got into the addiction but needed someone else to keep up with her addiction...if not she'd slit her wrists.
Anyway, My mother had to work and work, so she had little influence on my siblings life. Once the addiction got out of hand, and my mom knew, she started to show my sibling love.

My mother eventually stopped, she has her in-house kids to live with. My sibling is an adult now. Guess what? My sibling went back to it after she had problems with her man.

I started to see a pattern and noticed that the addiction was not only drugs, but her way to cry out for help and love from my mother. Now my mother and are always there for her and she's been clean for a year or so.

Now without drugs, try this scenario:

If you're single and you go clubbing, will you keep going if you had no one to go with? Probably not.
If you didn't have many games and no online capability to keep on playing the same game, would you still play it? Probably not.

Addiction is always a cry for help.

raywaters11 · Jul 24, 2011

I wouldn't waste my time typing RIP Amy Winehouse if it would bring her back.

</trolling>

Pittsey · Jul 24, 2011

Another for the 27 club...!

I have seen addiction first hand, and I still have no compassion towards it. It's reckless and selfish. I have seen people manage addiction for 10 + years, but in the end it will still destroy you.

Sebastian · Jul 24, 2011

"She had demons she couldnt control"...now thats spooky language.

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