Capital Punishment

[S O F I]

What are your views on it? The issues are whether capital punishment should be applied at all and if so, how can it be applied fairly?

Advocates of capital punishment cite the Biblical "an eye for an eye" injunction and see capital punishment as the ultimate deterrent of crime.

ON the other hands, the opponents characterize it as outdated barbarism and say it has no real effect on deterring crime.

Some help in formulating an opinion:

1. Do you think it's morally justified, without regard to its social consequences?
2. Does it serve important social goals, such as deterrence of crime?

 

[Rahim]

I was driving with a friend of mine to the beach yesterday and the car in front of us had that same injunction on a bumper sticker. I don't agree with this saying because this belief would eventually lead to the extinction of the human race.

I don't agree with having capital punishment, not just in a western civilization, but in any part of the world because it promotes the killing of man kind. Being a part of man kind, we do not have any authority whatsoever to take away someone else's life no matter what government or divine law they have broken.

Even though I do believe God will deal with the sinners and the criminals and anyone who disobeys, discipline should be in order for unforgivable acts such as homicide. The people that commit these sinful acts shouldn't just be thrown in jail, they need supervision, and they need to be looked after. Putting that person in jail for life or letting them free won't make a difference on their health because this person isn't getting the mental help he or she needs.

 

[AmerikazMost]

1. Do you think it's morally justified, without regard to its social consequences?

Yes.

2. Does it serve important social goals, such as deterrence of crime?

No.

There is no evidence whatsoever that shows that capital punishment deters crime. In fact, most evidence suggests that violent crime is heavier in areas that do have it. I tend to believe that its presence is neutral.

Also, it's more expensive to put one person to death than to keep him in prison for the rest of his life. Between all the extra hearings, appeals, experts, etc. necessary to ensure that the accused gets a fair trial and judgment, that adds up for the taxpayers.

Moreover, many states have exonerated more death row inmates than they have put to death in recent years. Innocent people still fall through the cracks. How do you justify taking an innocent man's life? Is it really worth it to kill a dozen bad men if you deprive one upstanding citizen of his ability to pursue happiness?

Not to mention the number one demographic that's put to death is blacks who commit crimes against whites.


This is all from memory of extensive research I did in high school for a debate, so if some things have changed slightly, I wouldn't be surprised (though not enough to turn the debate on its head).




In the end, it serves no purpose other than to satiate the lustful vengeance of the victim's loved ones.

 

[PuffnScruff]

i don't have a stance on the issue one way or the other. but i don't see the need to have a repeat or mass murderers live out their lives in prison. they aren't going to do society or anyone any good in there and they sure as hell aren't going to be rehabilitated.

i do like these quotes though

"Law cannot persuade, where is cannot punish". Thomas Fuller

"Executing a murderer is the only way to adequately express our horror at the taking of an innocent life. Nothing else suffices. To equate the lives of killers with those of victims is the worst kind of moral equivalency. If capital punishment is state murder, then imprisonment is state kidnapping and restitution is state theft." Don Feder

Let all the laws be clear, uniform and precise. To interpret laws is almost always to corrupt them. Voltaire

"If Capital Punishment is state sponsored murder, then any lesser punishment is a state sponsored murder of Justice." Saqib Ali

i also think there are far more reasons for and against capital punishment then you mentioned sofi. please add more to both sides that way people can make a better opinion on the issue.

 

[Prize Gotti]

My view on Murder does not match that of the dictionary.

A Murderer kills for pleasure, gratification, obsession etc etc.

A Killer kills for business/political reasons.

Murderers should have their life taken, their motivs are sickening and they serve no purpose to the world.

I believe Killers have a 'valid' motiv. It may not serve a purpose, but there is reason behind it. Asasssins & Gang members fall into this category. Killers should serve a sentence.

Off topic, but I believe paedophiles should be castrated.

 

[S O F I]

Executing a murderer is the only way to adequately express our horror at the taking of an innocent life. Nothing else suffices. To equate the lives of killers with those of victims is the worst kind of moral equivalency. If capital punishment is state murder, then imprisonment is state kidnapping and restitution is state theft." Don Feder

I advise Don Feder to read the US Constitution again.

Let all the laws be clear, uniform and precise. To interpret laws is almost always to corrupt them. Voltaire

To not interpret laws is to have anarchy. I like Voltaire, but damn. Not to mention that the body of law is too complex to be clear, uniform, and precise. Every case is different.

"If Capital Punishment is state sponsored murder, then any lesser punishment is a state sponsored murder of Justice." Saqib Ali

He basically says an eye for an eye = justice. His name explains his backward thinking. Plus, a democrat? weird.

i also think there are far more reasons for and against capital punishment then you mentioned sofi. please add more to both sides that way people can make a better opinion on the issue.

Well, surely so. However, I'm not going to let people have it that easy. It was just a little background info; I expect people to research their positions if they don't already have one.

This is all from memory of extensive research I did in high school for a debate, so if some things have changed slightly, I wouldn't be surprised (though not enough to turn the debate on its head).

You were correct, although saying that there's more evidence suggesting crime is heavier in areas favoring capital punishment is a bit iffy. To be safe, people say it's neutral, as you concluded for yourself.

In the end, it serves no purpose other than to satiate the lustful vengeance of the victim's loved ones.

Yes, and this is one of the main reasons why I do not favor capital punishment.

 

[_carmi]

1. Do you think it's morally justified, without regard to its social consequences?

yeah

2. Does it serve important social goals, such as deterrence of crime?


nah

i'm technically against it because some innocent people will always end up dead with the bad guys. of course if the guy is osama bin laden or hitler or whoever killed tons of people, fuck that make that person pay. i dont know. it's better if we get rid of the capital punishment. because who are we to say who deserves it and who doesn't.

 

[Tha_Wood]

im all for it. here in australia it costs $100,000 a year to keep a prisoner in jail. why waste tax payers money by keeping a person in prison for the rest of there life when you could simply kill them

 

[The.Menace]

At least in the US, every execution does cost more than keep prisoner in jail for life.

Advocates of capital punishment cite the Biblical "an eye for an eye" injunction and see capital punishment as the ultimate deterrent of crime.

Everybody that tries 2 justify it with the bible obvious didn't read the bible.

 

[Sebastian]

At least in the US, every execution does cost more than keep prisoner in jail for life.

How is this possible?

 

[Glockmatic]

Everybody that tries 2 justify it with the bible obvious didn't read the bible.

Lets skip over all the stoning and the death and just focus on the good Jesus portion! YA!

 

[The.Menace]

that is what the new testament is about, right.

 

[AmerikazMost]

How is this possible?

Extra preliminary hearings and court time, extra preparation time on the part of the DA's (and if the accused is represented by a public defender, that comes out of the taxpayer's pocket too), extra expert witnesses, generally longer trials, penalty phase hearings, automatic reviews by upper courts, appeals, etc, etc, etc

Not to mention the costs of the execution itself.


Prisoners aren't being served gourmet meals or anything in there. They don't have personal air conditioners and don't go on shopping sprees using taxpayers dollars. Living in prison is relatively cheap for the state.



On the surface, it doesn't sound like it should be less expensive, I know, but it is.

 

[The.Menace]

thx for clearin that up..... and I want to add, even though there are those experts, we know today that some (many?) executions weren't just and they killed the wrong dude (for some reasons that happened primaly in the 80s 2 black people in the south, don't ask me why)...... and therefore it really makes no sense to execute people

 

[Sebastian]

Extra preliminary hearings and court time, extra preparation time on the part of the DA's (and if the accused is represented by a public defender, that comes out of the taxpayer's pocket too), extra expert witnesses, generally longer trials, penalty phase hearings, automatic reviews by upper courts, appeals, etc, etc, etc

Not to mention the costs of the execution itself.


Prisoners aren't being served gourmet meals or anything in there. They don't have personal air conditioners and don't go on shopping sprees using taxpayers dollars. Living in prison is relatively cheap for the state.



On the surface, it doesn't sound like it should be less expensive, I know, but it is.

Ok, lets build more jails and lock them all up.

 

[AmerikazMost]

Ok, lets build more jails and lock them all up.

We should just stop taking up so much room with DUI offenders and then we wouldn't need the additional space.

DUI is dangerous, but there's mandatory sentence for a second offense in PA.

 

[PuffnScruff]

http://kaaltv.com/article/stories/S108804.shtml?cat=10151

a story about studies that shows that the death penalty deters crime

 

[AmerikazMost]

http://kaaltv.com/article/stories/S108804.shtml?cat=10151

a story about studies that shows that the death penalty deters crime

"This isn’t left vs. right. This is a nerdy statistician saying it’s too hard to tell," [Justin] Wolfers [an economist at the Wharton School of Business] said. "Within the advocacy community and legal scholars who are not as statistically adept, they will tell you it’s still an open question. Among the small number of economists at leading universities whose bread and butter is statistical analysis, the argument is finished."

I read this article when it came out and it made me laugh. Studies on the Illinois moratorium, for exmaple, imply that people will kill more because the cost of doing so is less. LOL. I'm ECON major (which I guess will tecnically make me an economist when I graduate?), but even I know better than to apply economic theories about purchasing to crime.

Like my ECON Stat professor and Wolfers said, you can manipulate statistics however you want--and I'll dare to amend that to say ESPECIALLY on social and public policy issues. Crime was dropping in NY before they reinstituted the death penalty. Doesn't that mean its absence deterred crime? How can that be???

 

[S O F I]

For every study that says capital punishment deters crime, there's a study that says it doesn't.

 

[PuffnScruff]

For every study that says capital punishment deters crime, there's a study that says it doesn't.

you can say that on just about any study done on any subject....well you know...remove capital punishment from the statement