The most truthful advert you will EVER see.
- Thread starter Casey
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Hi, I'm Homo sapiens. When it comes to myself and others such as myself I tend to raise my moral flag when I see something that I think is wrong. When it comes to other species I suddenly revert back to a prehistoric primate led purely by instinct and my flag is nowhere to be seen.
I'm now going to kill my red-headed stepchild. Mother nature wants me to spread my genes, not take care of a parasite. Then I will impregnate the female forcefully if she refuses to take my seed. If my child is born with a mental/physical handicap I will kill it. After all I can't help that it failed to evolve as far as I have and is a danger to the purity of my species' gene pool.
Blabla. Either apply morals, or don't. Most people tend to move in between the two whenever convenient or whenever they can't break out of their conditioned responses and thought patterns. I feel that any reason provided for denying animals the basic right to not be killed unless necessary would suddenly fall short if more evolved (or rather better suited for survival) and more intelligent beings were to show up and use us as a resource. We wouldn't see it as a "part of nature" and we would like them to deny their instincts and use their full mental capabilities to assess the situation. Basically we wouldn't want them to deny us the rights that most people deny animals.
I do agree that you shouldn't force your beliefs onto others but some people think it's more important to prevent animals from being abused/killed than to try and not annoy people. I tend to laugh at a lot of religious views but also in a lot of instances I understand. Some people should work a little on their empathy if you think the vegetarian side of the discussion is completely moronic. I thoroughly dislike seeing women in the Middle East dressed like a curtain but then again I can see a part of the logic when I see 13 year old girls dressed like prostitutes and a society that values beauty more than intellect.
Gotti, have you seen Elfen Lied? It's relevant to this discussion and besides that it's a great anime, although you've probably seen shitloads so I might be overrating it. Should check it out if you haven't. Also if you happen to have some suggestions don't hesitate to PM me them *giggles*.
I'm now going to kill my red-headed stepchild. Mother nature wants me to spread my genes, not take care of a parasite. Then I will impregnate the female forcefully if she refuses to take my seed. If my child is born with a mental/physical handicap I will kill it. After all I can't help that it failed to evolve as far as I have and is a danger to the purity of my species' gene pool.
Blabla. Either apply morals, or don't. Most people tend to move in between the two whenever convenient or whenever they can't break out of their conditioned responses and thought patterns. I feel that any reason provided for denying animals the basic right to not be killed unless necessary would suddenly fall short if more evolved (or rather better suited for survival) and more intelligent beings were to show up and use us as a resource. We wouldn't see it as a "part of nature" and we would like them to deny their instincts and use their full mental capabilities to assess the situation. Basically we wouldn't want them to deny us the rights that most people deny animals.
I do agree that you shouldn't force your beliefs onto others but some people think it's more important to prevent animals from being abused/killed than to try and not annoy people. I tend to laugh at a lot of religious views but also in a lot of instances I understand. Some people should work a little on their empathy if you think the vegetarian side of the discussion is completely moronic. I thoroughly dislike seeing women in the Middle East dressed like a curtain but then again I can see a part of the logic when I see 13 year old girls dressed like prostitutes and a society that values beauty more than intellect.
Gotti, have you seen Elfen Lied? It's relevant to this discussion and besides that it's a great anime, although you've probably seen shitloads so I might be overrating it. Should check it out if you haven't. Also if you happen to have some suggestions don't hesitate to PM me them *giggles*.
Its cool if you want to be a vegetarian, I have no problem with that. But don't preach to others that they are wrong. If you choose to not eat meat, that is your opinion, keep your opinion to yourself. If I wanted your opinion I would ask for it. I don't go round preaching to people that they should eat meat, so I don't appreciate it when you tell me I shouldn't.
And yes Chronic, i've heard of it, but I tend to stay away from girl based anime, I'm more a "greatest warrior in the universe" fan.
And yes Chronic, i've heard of it, but I tend to stay away from girl based anime, I'm more a "greatest warrior in the universe" fan.
You understand though that some people, myself included, think annoying people becomes irrelevant when it comes to something like killing a living being? Although there are definitely vegetarians that are smug about it, it's usually not a case of "I want you to believe what I do because it will make me feel good", it's a case of "I want you to believe what I do so that something bad that's happening will stop".
I don't want religious people stopping by my door to preach the word of God but I'd either listen to what they have to say (you never know if new information, or at least presented in a new way, may change your thought patterns) or I'd explain to them that I'm agnostic and there's nothing they can say that would change my mind. Since they're trying to save my soul I'd definitely be annoyed if I told them I wasn't interested and they kept at it. If it was about the issue of abortion I'd show a lot more empathy because it's not about me, it's about something more important.
I try not to preach, I've only had discussions about vegetarianism offline when someone asked me about it, but I understand why others do.
Although me and Casey are probably on the same line, for the sake of discussion I'll agree that he shouldn't be preaching. But then again, no one forced you to enter into a discussion. And whenever someone mentions the word "vegetarian" 9/10 people will say something derogatory. I get that people don't want to be bothered by this issue but they provoke plenty of bother themselves.
As for Elfen Lied it does have the annoying "anime chick" factor but it's brutal and has a great story. It's only 13 20-minute episodes.
Casey, I don't know anything about your financial situation but do you actively use money or physical effort to aid the cause?
I don't want religious people stopping by my door to preach the word of God but I'd either listen to what they have to say (you never know if new information, or at least presented in a new way, may change your thought patterns) or I'd explain to them that I'm agnostic and there's nothing they can say that would change my mind. Since they're trying to save my soul I'd definitely be annoyed if I told them I wasn't interested and they kept at it. If it was about the issue of abortion I'd show a lot more empathy because it's not about me, it's about something more important.
I try not to preach, I've only had discussions about vegetarianism offline when someone asked me about it, but I understand why others do.
Although me and Casey are probably on the same line, for the sake of discussion I'll agree that he shouldn't be preaching. But then again, no one forced you to enter into a discussion. And whenever someone mentions the word "vegetarian" 9/10 people will say something derogatory. I get that people don't want to be bothered by this issue but they provoke plenty of bother themselves.
As for Elfen Lied it does have the annoying "anime chick" factor but it's brutal and has a great story. It's only 13 20-minute episodes.
Casey, I don't know anything about your financial situation but do you actively use money or physical effort to aid the cause?
Ya I see this turned into a vegetarian discussion so I skipped to the last page. I am not interested in hearing about it from a health perspective. I don't eat meat because I think it's so goddamn healthy, and I don't care enough about my health to become a vegetarian.
I don't really have a moral quirrel when it comes to killing animals. That doesn't mean I kill animals, I'm against killing for no purpose. If I smacked a fly I would probably feel bad, but from a rational point of view I don't think there's a reason why I shouldn't smack a fly. If someone ten thousand times bigger than me suddenly slaps me some time in the future I probably won't like it, but if it happens it happens. I remember last time around when we had the vegetarian discussion, and the two arguments that repeat are animal cruelty and health. I will never buy the argument that being a vegetarian is healthier than eating a varied diet that involves meat. I don't care how many test results you throw at me. Humans could have been herbivores, but we're not, and that tells me something. Then people might feel inclined to point out that we no longer live in our primal environment. Is anyone familiar with the theory of dark matter, and how it's an invisible "skeleton" for the entire universe? Well fuck that theory for a second, but imagine that there is some part of science that we have not yet figured out. Some principle that doesn't fit into any of our previous recounts of science. Something new that requires some new way of thinking outside of the box that no one has even formulated as a theory yet. Should such a thing exist, the error margin in those tests and studies you refer to is unpredictable. I mean, my general feel is that we coincidentally know a lot about human mediscine, but that the complexity of it is so undocumented that when you talk about how some amino acid is affected by some protein in some process that's supposedly not healthy for the human body, you have no idea what you are talking about at all. We all know medical studies and how they work. Smoking was good for you, then it's dangerous and can cause lung cancer, then it turns out it can fuck up your arteries and clog your blood veins, then we realize it can affect potency and shifts in mood, and appetite. A single scientific study holds as much merit as anything I pull right out of my ass.
And how do vegetarians comment on the fact that farm crop harvesting kills as many animals a year as the meat industry?
And typically for this discussion, I always point out that I have no problems with vegetarians and won't try to fuck with your belief system so long as you don't try to guilt me. People do what is convenient for them. People believe until believing is too hard, then they conveniently stop believing. Being a vegetarian is somehow convenient to those who do it. If it posed a problem that seriously lessened your quality of life over a longer period of time, your own brain's counter-measure would dictate you to start having different thoughts. Let's all not forget that.
I don't really have a moral quirrel when it comes to killing animals. That doesn't mean I kill animals, I'm against killing for no purpose. If I smacked a fly I would probably feel bad, but from a rational point of view I don't think there's a reason why I shouldn't smack a fly. If someone ten thousand times bigger than me suddenly slaps me some time in the future I probably won't like it, but if it happens it happens. I remember last time around when we had the vegetarian discussion, and the two arguments that repeat are animal cruelty and health. I will never buy the argument that being a vegetarian is healthier than eating a varied diet that involves meat. I don't care how many test results you throw at me. Humans could have been herbivores, but we're not, and that tells me something. Then people might feel inclined to point out that we no longer live in our primal environment. Is anyone familiar with the theory of dark matter, and how it's an invisible "skeleton" for the entire universe? Well fuck that theory for a second, but imagine that there is some part of science that we have not yet figured out. Some principle that doesn't fit into any of our previous recounts of science. Something new that requires some new way of thinking outside of the box that no one has even formulated as a theory yet. Should such a thing exist, the error margin in those tests and studies you refer to is unpredictable. I mean, my general feel is that we coincidentally know a lot about human mediscine, but that the complexity of it is so undocumented that when you talk about how some amino acid is affected by some protein in some process that's supposedly not healthy for the human body, you have no idea what you are talking about at all. We all know medical studies and how they work. Smoking was good for you, then it's dangerous and can cause lung cancer, then it turns out it can fuck up your arteries and clog your blood veins, then we realize it can affect potency and shifts in mood, and appetite. A single scientific study holds as much merit as anything I pull right out of my ass.
And how do vegetarians comment on the fact that farm crop harvesting kills as many animals a year as the meat industry?
And typically for this discussion, I always point out that I have no problems with vegetarians and won't try to fuck with your belief system so long as you don't try to guilt me. People do what is convenient for them. People believe until believing is too hard, then they conveniently stop believing. Being a vegetarian is somehow convenient to those who do it. If it posed a problem that seriously lessened your quality of life over a longer period of time, your own brain's counter-measure would dictate you to start having different thoughts. Let's all not forget that.
I want to change this notion into something that's imo more interesting to take into account. EVERYONE burns for something, it's just what we actually care about that differs. if someone really WANTS to work for betterment of animal rights and really WANTS to become a vegetarian, this individual has been blessed with a gift that most other people don't get. It's easy for someone to believe in something to judge the people who don't believe in it, but they fail to understand that the effort I would have to put into being a vegetarian would be a bigger strain on my life than the effort Casey would have to put into being a vegetarian, which he already wants to be. You have been given this motivator that I don't possess, and you expect me to live up to your beliefs? If I and every other person on this planet conform to becoming vegetarians and only thinking about the environment and the animals, who will fight the other fights that need fighting? I mean, where I'm going with this is here: Learn to evaluate things. Learn to understand that your private battle that you fight against the world for your own personal reasons are, as stated, your personal fight that you're fighting. Whatever motivates you, whatever makes you feel inclined to do the things you do, is a result of all your experiences and all the thoughts you have had in your life. I have had different experiences, different thoughts. Maybe helping eastern european human slaves who were brought here as whores is more important to me than animals, but that I use so much time for their rights that I barely have enough time to cater to my own needs. Am I supposed to just conform to what you believe because of some moral reason that you feel is above everything else in the human world right now?
I dunno, I can get sorta ticked when people try to guilt me into believing shit lol.
I dunno, I can get sorta ticked when people try to guilt me into believing shit lol.
i think Casey just cant get past accepting that there are people out there with different opinions to him. whenever someone's opinion differs, he goes on a quest to exhaust all avenues of debate and argument.
shit is ridiculous and is bleeding arrogance. you are not changing my mind, or other people's minds. and to preach like some sort of derranged New-Age Religion pastor is just annoying.
i've noticed whenever someone disagrees with you, you HAVE to get on your high horse and accuse them of being ignorant or blind. get over yourself. you're not the messiah.
shit is ridiculous and is bleeding arrogance. you are not changing my mind, or other people's minds. and to preach like some sort of derranged New-Age Religion pastor is just annoying.
i've noticed whenever someone disagrees with you, you HAVE to get on your high horse and accuse them of being ignorant or blind. get over yourself. you're not the messiah.
I'll go with a true story to prove how becoming a vegetarian is not healthy.
My friend was a vegetarian, she never liked meat, and probably never will. But she had headaches almost daily. She took pills to replace the proteins she couldn't from meat. But she still had headaches. Then she went to see a doctor and he told her she couldn't be a vegetarian, she was becoming anemic because she was missing proteins that only REAL meat could provide her.
Now she eats meat once or twice a week, no more headaches. She doesn't like meat but has to. It's no longer a choice.
She's one of of many friends that went through the same things. Synthetic proteins just aren't the same.
My friend was a vegetarian, she never liked meat, and probably never will. But she had headaches almost daily. She took pills to replace the proteins she couldn't from meat. But she still had headaches. Then she went to see a doctor and he told her she couldn't be a vegetarian, she was becoming anemic because she was missing proteins that only REAL meat could provide her.
Now she eats meat once or twice a week, no more headaches. She doesn't like meat but has to. It's no longer a choice.
She's one of of many friends that went through the same things. Synthetic proteins just aren't the same.
I've known a few people like that.
Also, I'll take my family doctor's opinion on the matter in front of any bonehead study or person here, and I don't mean that in a disrespectful way, nobody here is an MD and are just speaking on things they've read, or about themselves, which is only 1 case.
Thank you.
*grabs a fucking live salmon and bites it's head off*
Also, I'll take my family doctor's opinion on the matter in front of any bonehead study or person here, and I don't mean that in a disrespectful way, nobody here is an MD and are just speaking on things they've read, or about themselves, which is only 1 case.
Thank you.
*grabs a fucking live salmon and bites it's head off*
Doesn't anyone here get that it's about a "higher purpose"? As in a purpose more important than my time on this planet.
People often point out "why should I help animals when people are starving?" but most of the time they're not helping people either. They just complain when someone who's trying to do good (not for self-satisfaction ... the smug people you can punch in the face) disturbs them for a few minutes. Everyone feels oh so bad about kids leading a horrible life but when UNICEF comes knocking they're annoying.
It's not as if ethical vegetarians are asking you to grab a plane ride to Indonesia to save animals that were affected by a natural disaster, they're simply asking you to stop being a part of the problem. It's demand and supply. When you buy meat you become part of the demand. If you stop the demand, you stop the supply. It's also not like religious people going to Africa and spreading the word of God so they can "save their souls" or going off on a crusade against same-sex marriage. None of those things are harmful. Meat factories, puppy mills, fur factories etc. are harmful. Even if you don't have any moral qualms about animals being killed for our sheer satisfaction you must at least have an EQ that's developed enough to see that it's a just cause and not just a bunch of whining hippies. Living beings are cruelly and unnecessarily tortured and killed. But I guess no one should say anything about it because they might annoy someone for a couple of minutes...
Would you blame someone for preaching to you about your sneakers if they came from a sweatshop? If you can't even put up with listening when you're a part of the problem I think that shows some serious selfish behavior.
If you want to live your life purely for yourself, that's fine, but respect those that consider other things to be more important than themselves. And it's not about convenience or feeling good about it. I would be a far happier person if I didn't care about it but if I had a magic genie I still wouldn't wish for the feeling to go away. Like Preach said, I have been "blessed" with a motivation but I don't think he sees that part of that motivation came from spending a lot of time thinking and being unselfish in the first place. He mentioned that once it became an inconvenience a part of my brain would tell me to stop doing what I do but you're capable of sending signals to your brain as well and ignoring your instincts is the very thing that seperates us from the other animals.
And it's not just about killing them. It's about this:
In my opinion if you see those pictures and don't see any moral problems you're either so conditioned by society that you're actually incapable of seeing anything else or you're a sociopath.
My dad's a doctor and he sees a lot of people, mostly women, who stop eating meat and get sick. In most cases it's because they don't change their diet and stop eating meat overnight. Meat is a great source for proteins because you need to eat a variety of plants to get the same but pills aren't a replacement.
Did your friends change their entire diet or did they keep eating the same things, only exchanging meat for pills?
"A doctor" is pretty vague as well. The world of medicine changes constantly, there's a lot of money involved (which directly or indirectly influences what a doctor knows/does) and outdated information. Just because someone has the title of 'dietitian' doesn't necessarily mean he's an expert on food and nutrition.
There are people who actually need meat (which makes it alright to eat) but it's like with ADD/ADHD. How many people who have been diagnosed with them actually suffer from it?
Probably last post on this, it's been discussed to death. I still get sucked in every time
People often point out "why should I help animals when people are starving?" but most of the time they're not helping people either. They just complain when someone who's trying to do good (not for self-satisfaction ... the smug people you can punch in the face) disturbs them for a few minutes. Everyone feels oh so bad about kids leading a horrible life but when UNICEF comes knocking they're annoying.
It's not as if ethical vegetarians are asking you to grab a plane ride to Indonesia to save animals that were affected by a natural disaster, they're simply asking you to stop being a part of the problem. It's demand and supply. When you buy meat you become part of the demand. If you stop the demand, you stop the supply. It's also not like religious people going to Africa and spreading the word of God so they can "save their souls" or going off on a crusade against same-sex marriage. None of those things are harmful. Meat factories, puppy mills, fur factories etc. are harmful. Even if you don't have any moral qualms about animals being killed for our sheer satisfaction you must at least have an EQ that's developed enough to see that it's a just cause and not just a bunch of whining hippies. Living beings are cruelly and unnecessarily tortured and killed. But I guess no one should say anything about it because they might annoy someone for a couple of minutes...
Would you blame someone for preaching to you about your sneakers if they came from a sweatshop? If you can't even put up with listening when you're a part of the problem I think that shows some serious selfish behavior.
If you want to live your life purely for yourself, that's fine, but respect those that consider other things to be more important than themselves. And it's not about convenience or feeling good about it. I would be a far happier person if I didn't care about it but if I had a magic genie I still wouldn't wish for the feeling to go away. Like Preach said, I have been "blessed" with a motivation but I don't think he sees that part of that motivation came from spending a lot of time thinking and being unselfish in the first place. He mentioned that once it became an inconvenience a part of my brain would tell me to stop doing what I do but you're capable of sending signals to your brain as well and ignoring your instincts is the very thing that seperates us from the other animals.
And it's not just about killing them. It's about this:
In my opinion if you see those pictures and don't see any moral problems you're either so conditioned by society that you're actually incapable of seeing anything else or you're a sociopath.
My dad's a doctor and he sees a lot of people, mostly women, who stop eating meat and get sick. In most cases it's because they don't change their diet and stop eating meat overnight. Meat is a great source for proteins because you need to eat a variety of plants to get the same but pills aren't a replacement.
Did your friends change their entire diet or did they keep eating the same things, only exchanging meat for pills?
"A doctor" is pretty vague as well. The world of medicine changes constantly, there's a lot of money involved (which directly or indirectly influences what a doctor knows/does) and outdated information. Just because someone has the title of 'dietitian' doesn't necessarily mean he's an expert on food and nutrition.
There are people who actually need meat (which makes it alright to eat) but it's like with ADD/ADHD. How many people who have been diagnosed with them actually suffer from it?
Probably last post on this, it's been discussed to death. I still get sucked in every time
I love you Chronic. You are so much more eloquent on this than I.
I honestly don't see how anyone can question what Chronic just wrote, so meat-eaters, ignore my preaching for a second and my supposed arrogance (i see you ill-matic and for the record, yes I AM the messiah), and how about you try and debunk what Chron just wrote?
Have at it.
oh, and _carmi, your post is complete and utter bullshit. There is NOT ONE ESSENTIAL THING in meat that can't be found elsewhere. Are you telling me that your friend needs animal fats and muscle mass in her body to survive and not get headaches? I put it to you, that with the right vegetarian diet she would not need to eat meat at all, that's the truth of the matter. I suggest she go and see a qualified dietician to sort that out, since she clearly wants to be on the right, compassionate path but feels as if something is stopping her.
I honestly don't see how anyone can question what Chronic just wrote, so meat-eaters, ignore my preaching for a second and my supposed arrogance (i see you ill-matic and for the record, yes I AM the messiah), and how about you try and debunk what Chron just wrote?
Have at it.
oh, and _carmi, your post is complete and utter bullshit. There is NOT ONE ESSENTIAL THING in meat that can't be found elsewhere. Are you telling me that your friend needs animal fats and muscle mass in her body to survive and not get headaches? I put it to you, that with the right vegetarian diet she would not need to eat meat at all, that's the truth of the matter. I suggest she go and see a qualified dietician to sort that out, since she clearly wants to be on the right, compassionate path but feels as if something is stopping her.
I tell you something guys:
It bothers me that Chronic is absolutely right about the "higher purpose" part he is talking about and that there is nothing that can take anything away from his argument.
Im not sure if it bothers me so much that i will at some point in the future make the logical step, away from this egoistic behaviour, to becoming a vegetarian. But i totally see his point have a huge amount of respect for this kind of behaviour.
It bothers me that Chronic is absolutely right about the "higher purpose" part he is talking about and that there is nothing that can take anything away from his argument.
Im not sure if it bothers me so much that i will at some point in the future make the logical step, away from this egoistic behaviour, to becoming a vegetarian. But i totally see his point have a huge amount of respect for this kind of behaviour.
My dad's a doctor and he sees a lot of people, mostly women, who stop eating meat and get sick. In most cases it's because they don't change their diet and stop eating meat overnight. Meat is a great source for proteins because you need to eat a variety of plants to get the same but pills aren't a replacement.
Did your friends change their entire diet or did they keep eating the same things, only exchanging meat for pills?
"A doctor" is pretty vague as well. The world of medicine changes constantly, there's a lot of money involved (which directly or indirectly influences what a doctor knows/does) and outdated information. Just because someone has the title of 'dietitian' doesn't necessarily mean he's an expert on food and nutrition.
There are people who actually need meat (which makes it alright to eat) but it's like with ADD/ADHD. How many people who have been diagnosed with them actually suffer from it?
Probably last post on this, it's been discussed to death. I still get sucked in every time
Did your friends change their entire diet or did they keep eating the same things, only exchanging meat for pills?
"A doctor" is pretty vague as well. The world of medicine changes constantly, there's a lot of money involved (which directly or indirectly influences what a doctor knows/does) and outdated information. Just because someone has the title of 'dietitian' doesn't necessarily mean he's an expert on food and nutrition.
There are people who actually need meat (which makes it alright to eat) but it's like with ADD/ADHD. How many people who have been diagnosed with them actually suffer from it?
Probably last post on this, it's been discussed to death. I still get sucked in every time
And yes I understand where the point of being a vegetarian comes from. But it's not about stopping to eat meat, it's about changing the way we get our meat in our plates.
I think that's the problem. A lot of people equate vegetarians with vegetables, the only thing they have in common is that they both start with 'vegeta'.
You're supposed to eat lots of vegetables regardless. Even if you eat meat vegetables should probably be the largest portion on your plate and meat the smallest (and from what I've seen with most people it's the other way around). There's generally very little protein in vegetables so it's not a replacement for meat.
Basically she replaced her main intake of proteins with products that contain very little proteins. Not surprising that she ends up with a protein-deficiency.
PS: I edited your post. Didn't touch a thing that you personally said, just took out a large chunk of my post which you quoted so people don't have to scroll past it. Hope thou does not mindeth.
You're supposed to eat lots of vegetables regardless. Even if you eat meat vegetables should probably be the largest portion on your plate and meat the smallest (and from what I've seen with most people it's the other way around). There's generally very little protein in vegetables so it's not a replacement for meat.
Basically she replaced her main intake of proteins with products that contain very little proteins. Not surprising that she ends up with a protein-deficiency.
PS: I edited your post. Didn't touch a thing that you personally said, just took out a large chunk of my post which you quoted so people don't have to scroll past it. Hope thou does not mindeth.
Most of this topic went past me, but I do want to chime in with a little bit here:
At this current point in global civilization, it's impossible, even for just the West, to grow enough food for a completely vegetaran diet. Plain and simple. There isn't enough fertile land to go around.
Now I do think Chronic is right on the moral issue. Certainly, but what also bothers me in a sense is that this topic is often so debated black-and-whitely. It's either not at all or completely. The anti's want to set all the animals free tomorrow and the pro's don't mind to see billions of animals suffer in unbelievable conditions. More often than not this topic is bouncing back and forth between these two extremes.
Now,
I am a staunch believer in the idea that animal meat is a natural part of human diet. We are omnivores, plain and simple. We hunt what we can, we scavenge what we can. That's what we do, biologically speaking.
But in this day and age, I immediately agree that the nature and scale of the bio-industry is beyond all proportions. We should become more aware of our diet (especially in the West), eat less meat and work towards a more balanced diet. These are all general wisdoms, and have actually little to do with the whole veggie-debate.
Now, on to the personal part. It's rather easy to say "stop being a part of the problem". I mean, I have a few other ones up my sleeve like that. If all the Germans in 1935 stopped being part of the problem there'd never be a WW2. Hindsight is great, and a moral high ground from which to proclaim these wonderful messages is fantastic, but the practical problem of the situation is that most people don't have the knowledge (hell, even half the experts don't have it yet) or the funds to stop eating meat.
And that's ignoring the practical problem of feeding 6 billion human beings on this planet. Some people think it's so easy to turn the whole shit around, they bring the 100kg grass -> 10kg sheep -> 1kg wolf argument to the table, which in itself is spot on, but so grossly ripped out of context and made into a champion-argument for their cause, that they forgot the pure and simple fact that the land where most sheep and cows get their grass from is simple not arable enough to produce a crop suited for human consumption.
Now, unless most die-hard world-improving veggies want to give the good example by digging in a large bowl of cassave this evening, I'd say we still got a massive problem but no solution, despite what some people claim.
Nothing in here directed at anyone's specific argument btw. Just my 5 cents.
EDIT: what I'm actually saying here is, I want a middle ground. We'll still need animals to eat, as banal as that may seem, but we can and should do it on a lesser scale, with much less brutality and disregard for animal life involved.
Consciously eating meat does not equal condoning the bio-industries.
At this current point in global civilization, it's impossible, even for just the West, to grow enough food for a completely vegetaran diet. Plain and simple. There isn't enough fertile land to go around.
Now I do think Chronic is right on the moral issue. Certainly, but what also bothers me in a sense is that this topic is often so debated black-and-whitely. It's either not at all or completely. The anti's want to set all the animals free tomorrow and the pro's don't mind to see billions of animals suffer in unbelievable conditions. More often than not this topic is bouncing back and forth between these two extremes.
Now,
I am a staunch believer in the idea that animal meat is a natural part of human diet. We are omnivores, plain and simple. We hunt what we can, we scavenge what we can. That's what we do, biologically speaking.
But in this day and age, I immediately agree that the nature and scale of the bio-industry is beyond all proportions. We should become more aware of our diet (especially in the West), eat less meat and work towards a more balanced diet. These are all general wisdoms, and have actually little to do with the whole veggie-debate.
Now, on to the personal part. It's rather easy to say "stop being a part of the problem". I mean, I have a few other ones up my sleeve like that. If all the Germans in 1935 stopped being part of the problem there'd never be a WW2. Hindsight is great, and a moral high ground from which to proclaim these wonderful messages is fantastic, but the practical problem of the situation is that most people don't have the knowledge (hell, even half the experts don't have it yet) or the funds to stop eating meat.
And that's ignoring the practical problem of feeding 6 billion human beings on this planet. Some people think it's so easy to turn the whole shit around, they bring the 100kg grass -> 10kg sheep -> 1kg wolf argument to the table, which in itself is spot on, but so grossly ripped out of context and made into a champion-argument for their cause, that they forgot the pure and simple fact that the land where most sheep and cows get their grass from is simple not arable enough to produce a crop suited for human consumption.
Now, unless most die-hard world-improving veggies want to give the good example by digging in a large bowl of cassave this evening, I'd say we still got a massive problem but no solution, despite what some people claim.
Nothing in here directed at anyone's specific argument btw. Just my 5 cents.
EDIT: what I'm actually saying here is, I want a middle ground. We'll still need animals to eat, as banal as that may seem, but we can and should do it on a lesser scale, with much less brutality and disregard for animal life involved.
Consciously eating meat does not equal condoning the bio-industries.
higher Purpose my fucking ass. You all seem to forget a crucial thing. We are all basically animals. Only we have higher brain functions. Therefore, we are at the top of the food chain. SO lets eat the bastards.
I don't care how my meat came to be. It doesn't matter how you kill the animal. In the end it dies.
We dominate ducks for example. Just listen to this lecture and you'll all understand.
[YOUTUBE]m8nWpBQZueA[/YOUTUBE]
I am going to go have a steak for Chronic. Extra Bloody.
I don't care how my meat came to be. It doesn't matter how you kill the animal. In the end it dies.
We dominate ducks for example. Just listen to this lecture and you'll all understand.
[YOUTUBE]m8nWpBQZueA[/YOUTUBE]
I am going to go have a steak for Chronic. Extra Bloody.
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