The Strength of Your Tupac Fanaticism

[Ristol]

Mine has ebbed. I'm not 14 anymore I guess.

Honestly, the music is still great, but when I see an old interview what strikes me is that he's not the wise and idealistic person I once thought he was. Now that I'm an adult, I can see that Tupac was just a hugely talented rapper with a wickedly misplaced sense of injustice. Like many black men in America, he was terribly disturbed by an establishment he saw as unjust--but only in very broad terms.

I wish Tupac had lived, but what if? Where would he be in today's world? That's not the thread I'm making, but it's easy to picture him rapping for pepsi or becoming marginalized because of his lack of actual, statistical knowledge about his causes, whatever they may be today.

My verdict on Tupac now is this: he was a gifted rapper--that's the most important part of him--and a fiery, outspoken critic of nothing in particular. I never thought of him as an empty head. Now I kind of do.

What do you think?

 

[Da_Funk]

Mine has ebbed. I'm not 14 anymore I guess.

Honestly, the music is still great, but when I see an old interview what strikes me is that he's not the wise and idealistic person I once thought he was. Now that I'm an adult, I can see that Tupac was just a hugely talented rapper with a wickedly misplaced sense of injustice. Like many black men in America, he was terribly disturbed by an establishment he saw as unjust--but only in very broad terms.

I wish Tupac had lived, but what if? Where would he be in today's world? That's not the thread I'm making, but it's easy to picture him rapping for pepsi or becoming marginalized because of his lack of actual, statistical knowledge about his causes, whatever they may be today.
My verdict on Tupac now is this: he was a gifted rapper--that's the most important part of him--and a fiery, outspoken critic of nothing in particular. I never thought of him as an empty head. Now I kind of do.

What do you think?

I still love his music, I just don't listen to him much anymore. I've listened to his songs so many times that there's nothing new there for me to discover.

As for the parts I bolded.. think about this: Tupac was 25 when he died. If Malcom X would've died when he was 25 he would've died an unknown street hustler in Harlem. If Martin Luther King Jr would've died at 25 he would've died an unknown priest in an unknown church. Tupac did die when he was 25 and he was a superstar rapper on top of the world. I can't remember who said that originally but it always stuck with me.

I'm not saying that he would've been a Malcom or a Martin Luther but to dismiss his potential is ridiculous. He was still SO young when he died. He would've grown A LOT between the time of his death and now, for better or worse I cannot say.

 

[KJ1]

dude was 25 not too far removed from a kid himself, im 26 now and still have no idea what it would be like to deal with all those court cases, extortionists, fake friends, constant scrutiny, and taking care of so many people while completely revolutionizing the "rap star"....

when we were kids, sometimes the first things we heard about a certain subject were from tupac's music or interviews.... now that we've had time to see things for ourselves we just have seen things from a different perspective...

not that either we or tupac are wrong, its just we have seen things differently.... i dont agree with everything he said, but the guy was a genius, if for nothing other than his passion..... it was genius the way he said to the world, "this is the way i am, if ya dont like it then fu** you", cause thats what we all needed in the 90's...

things are different now, and im sure pac would look back and wish he had said some things differently, but he was indeed smart, you can tell that by placing some of his subject matter and the way he put things together in a song up against any musician no matter the genre.....

 

[Euphanasia]

Mine has ebbed. I'm not 14 anymore I guess.

Honestly, the music is still great, but when I see an old interview what strikes me is that he's not the wise and idealistic person I once thought he was. Now that I'm an adult, I can see that Tupac was just a hugely talented rapper with a wickedly misplaced sense of injustice. Like many black men in America, he was terribly disturbed by an establishment he saw as unjust--but only in very broad terms.

I wish Tupac had lived, but what if? Where would he be in today's world? That's not the thread I'm making, but it's easy to picture him rapping for pepsi or becoming marginalized because of his lack of actual, statistical knowledge about his causes, whatever they may be today.

My verdict on Tupac now is this: he was a gifted rapper--that's the most important part of him--and a fiery, outspoken critic of nothing in particular. I never thought of him as an empty head. Now I kind of do.

What do you think?

wow. i'm kind of shocked by this. i understand that people grow up and those things that once enthralled them sometimes turn out to be rather petty when viewed through a more mature set of eyes. I am not "obsessed" with tupac the way i used to be, but my fascination hasn't dwindled. The reason I say that is because my vision of Tupac has always been an imperfect one. He had serious flaws, but those flaws are integral to his greatness.

I'll post more later, but i urge you to watch the Malcolm X dinner speech again. Perhaps Tupac Resurrection as well. Don't disregard the genius because you can't get past the flaws.

 

[Kadafi Son]

^^^
I agree.

I'm still young (21), and I'm not obsessed with Pac like I was when I was 12, but I would still call him the best rapper, and I would still say he was much more than that. Of course, at times, he said some immature things. But hell, even our grandparents say stupid shit sometimes, so I won't put anybody or 2pac on a pedastool for being that way. But to say that you think he might be rapping in Pepsi commercials these days when rappers in his era who are around today are owning things (Jay Z, Puffy, Snoop), its real ignorant and I don't know where you'd get the idea that he wouldn't go far like the rest of his peers did. Especially since he was more socially conscious than them. The whole life he lived wouldn't allow him to go out like Puffy did. Even without the music, 2pac had a cause, and I'm not sure how you missed out on that.

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

My verdict on Tupac now is this: he was a gifted rapper--that's the most important part of him--and a fiery, outspoken critic of nothing in particular. I never thought of him as an empty head. Now I kind of do.

That's what made him so easy to follow and believe in, because he was so general that anyone could identify with whatever he was preaching. Though I'm into my later twenties at the moment, even as a teenager, I knew that Pac wasn't going to lead the black nation or whatever the way some people thought. Yes, he had great ideas, but just general ideas that everyone could think of on their own. It's just that he said it louder and in a more convincing way, but without diving beneath the surface to the point where there was an actual solution.

 

[Bender]

I understand Tupac now more than i did 4 years ago, listening to his music now i can read between the lines of his raps and pick out the exact meaning of what tupac said

when i first started listening to 2pac i connected with the emotion in his raps and the genuinity of his style. i see past the thug image to see that tupac was a writer of poetry who 'murderd the alphabet' phrase taken from eminem.

you know the rules, gotta be a writer! ... too right pac was a poet, a writer, pac is the new age shakespeare when it comes to language, and if you don't get the ambiguity of 2pac's lyrics go back and listen again, you might just hear something that you never noticed before, after all we must be based on nothing better than communication, he said it himself. tupac has a bloody-mindedness way with words

 

[kastro]

2 pac 4 life, he died of at a young age, deff he wouldve grown up soo much and what he wouldve done is up for debate, but if he was alive im sure alot of things would be changed now like the hip-hop secene, and more likely he wouldbe been a movie star no doubt. Maybe its me but if he had lived im sure he wouldve teamed up with will smith for a movie

 

[Rahim]

well, if pac was physically here, this is how i'd picture his life to be:

I picture Tupac having his own reality show. It would be like Ray J's new show. and I can picture the hype everyone would just be all over pac. And not that he needed a reality show to find a woman, but tupac does get around.

I picture Tupac doing Pepsi commercials with his music in the commercial.

I picture Tupac being a spokesperson for fast food chains like Burger King lol

Hell, everyone wants a piece of Tupac

I think he'd be living like Snoop Dogg right about now, except he'd be running shit.



If Tupac was with us right now, I think he'd be running Makaveli Records and all of these artists would be taking direction from him.

He would be putting out deep albums every 5 years like he said he would be. But that doesn't mean he'll stop making music in between because he'll be building to his catalog day after day.

artists would be paying him to ad-lib in their songs. not just rappers, but rockers too.

And when he's not in the studio, he's starring in movies.

I can see Tupac doing some comedy movies. How about that?

I can see Tupac in some crazy science-fiction type shit.

Aside from the reality show, Tupac would be starring in his own TV series.

He'd be all over the place.

He'd be starring in other artists music videos. Why? Cause they'd pay his ass millions of dollars to be in his videos.

I can picture Tupac just sitting and chilling in these music videos laid back.

I can picture Tupac motherfuckin Shakur's house on MTV Cribs with the most insane stuff you have ever seen with his state of the art studio.

I bet if Pac was here, he would've gone seriously into producing his own beats.

if Pac was here, Suge would've still been owner of Death Row Records.

outlawz would still be rapping how they used to cuz he would be on top of them. God how i really miss that. have you wondered why almost every artist who raps with tupac on an OG sounds great?

If Pac was here, half of these other rappers wouldn't. And if they were, it would be cause of Tupac.

If Pac was here, people would never vote for rappers like Eminem on the recent poll that VIBE had.

now if only they put his music out right.

thavaults.com claims john payne from the new deathrow got the boot. can anyone confirm that?

 

[Ristol]

now if only they put his music out right.

Amen Rahim. Amen.

 

[Chronic]

pac is the new age shakespeare when it comes to language

Stop it, please

 

[Kadafi Son]

??? I guess everyone failed to realize Pac wasn't just an entertainer. Commercials, reality shows, CRIBS, movies...its only a small portion of what Pac would be doing. Everybody is forgetting he was a community activist and black leader. So half of those mainstream shows named wouldn't even be part of Pac's to-do list. I thought everybody here knew his diversity in his goals and longterm ambitionz whether it be poet, a bachelor, an artist, a public speaker, or a scriptwriter. His potential to be the greatest and on a whole 'notha level was very high compared to some of the people he kept around him. I really believe Pac would not be one of those sell outs who forgets who he was fighting for, and starts doing Flavor of Love type shows like that ex-Public Enemy member.

 

[Preach]

pac had a lot of great ideas, but very little insight into the leg work required to actually put those ideas into life. he was a convicted felon so these people saying that pac could have gone into politics should just, don't, lol.

pac was a motivational speaker. that was his forté. being good at motivating people doesn't equal being good at reading the 800 pages of a new legislation and then approving or declining it. the fact is, pac would have hated his life as a politician. he wanted to throw money at people and then someone else could use that money to do whatever needs to be done. he wanted to help, but he didn't want to be the person that actually did it. evidenced by the fact that he failed to commit to his duties. he was supposed to do a charity concert to get out of community service, which never happened.

also, don't forget that pac was bound to go back to jail again. suge got 7 years over the night in vegas and if you look at the tape, pac is just as much in on it as suge was. he also had other pending cases when he died, so yeah.

you're seeing stars dudes lol.

 

[Ristol]

100% with you, Preach. I was going to make a post like that.

 

[Preach]

to answer the thread

i was juvenile in how i related to pac in my younger years. i looked up to him cause i thought he was cool. fucking tats all over, six court cases a year, shot two police and got away with it. and he smoked weed and fucked bitches. what's not cool?

like year 5 into my fandom, i started mellowing out on that shit. i guess around the time when i grew up and started seeing myself for who i really am, and accepted myself. curiously, this is also when i started collecting pac shit. i collected for a few years, and i got like all his albums and unofficial albums, like 40 singles and promos, bunch of guest app albums, some promo vhs tapes, various shit that i wanna keep for the nostalgia. there's like 3 or 4 semi rare items in there and one ultra rare one that i could prolly net a few hundred bucks for. this became a collector's game to me. i didn't buy various editions of singles because i looked up to pac so much, it's more that i'm a systematic person. i like to collect things and arrange them lol.

now i'm sorta over that too. i'll still gladly shell money on pac shit when i have it. i love his music. not just the rapping, i love every aspect of his music. i love how he's good at making verses that gradually build up the intensity of the track throughout. verse 1 is normally real good, verse 2 is alright and filler, and verse 3 is always bomb. most of my favorite pac lines are from his last verse on tracks. last verse on unconditional love almost breaks me into tears. just the realness of it. to me anyway. i love how he was great at making songs. some people are good at writing battle raps but can't make good songs and albums, but pac really could. i also enjoy watching documentaries on him because he was an interesting person. it's like the closest i can get to experience what he experienced, is through looking at it like a character study.

so that's what my fandom has turned into. it's no longer groupie-ism, it's just me finding him thoroughly interesting, and his music ringing nice in my ears. it's a healthier type of fanaticism now lol. i don't spend a lot of time on forums since dante's site got hacked (which was a real shame cause that's the best pac board since 2pacboard in my eyes)

 

[S O F I]

i love how he was great at making songs. some people are good at writing battle raps but can't make good songs and albums, but pac really could.

That's what I often highlight when mentioning Tupac. He had impeccable song-making ability. I usually mention that when I talk about the LACK of song-making ability in many rapper's arsenals these days.

 

[Ristol]

It's called artistic vision, friends. Tupac was wealthy in that way.

 

[Kobe]

I've always believed that 2pac did a lot of dumb things during his lifetime, the dumbest act of them all eventually ended up with him getting killed in Vegas. Would I have accomplished everything 2pac accomplished at 25 if I could do it all again? Nope, not even if God gave me three more shots at it.

2pac was definitely maturing as he grew up. Eventually he was mature enough for the Grammy organizers to select him to introduce an act. An opportunity in which he took a swipe at the stiff tone the Grammy awards were set in. He was mature enough to show that he could show up at a movie set and work his ass off, proving his co-actors wrong. He was mature enough to record three LP's, faster than Suge Knight thought any human signed onto death row would be able to do. Mature enough for Quincy Jones (music producing, larger than life, super legend) to remember that even though 2pac disrespected him, he would still send him a signed birthday card. He was still maturing.

I do believe that if 2pac was alive, his superstar status would have been on the level of Will Smith (and f!@k you if you don't consider Will Smith a superstar). He'd be out of trouble and would probably have no more court cases tailing him all the time. Which is hard to imagine as he recorded music to get enough money to handle all the cases against him.

When 2pac was a kid, he spoke about how the President has so many rooms in the White House and he didn't think of letting in the homeless. Its something that can be interpreted in different ways but figure it out for yourself. The fact is, when 2pac had the chance to care for the homeless, he brought plenty of them into a house, took care of them, did the shopping for them. Those people had nothing to worry about. He even joked that if they didn't tell him what else they needed for shopping, it would be their fault. This was because there was no telling if he'll be alive next time to do the shopping. When 2pac died, these homeless people got kicked out of that house. How's that for maintaining 2pac's 'legacy'? Now try telling those homeless people that 2pac was a lost cause or a he was just a misplaced ideologist.

2pac had two sides as we all know, but of those two sides, there are two sides that we all don't know about. Would Jada break down reminiscing about the 2pac we see in the media? No, she broke down reminiscing about the 2pac she knew, someone who changed her life in ways that we can't even imagine.

Then you get rappers deliberately misusing 2pac's line on 'changes' about a black president. He said 'we ain't ready', which was so true at the time the song was written. He didn't say 'we will never be ready'. So it pisses me off the way that line was inserted into a song and it had people chanting back. The fact is that with 2pac, every line he wrote came into consideration of what the consequences were. If it wasn't appropriate he re-wrote it again. Even with 'California luv', he trashed the 1st verse he wrote and wrote a new one that was used on the song. That new verse could have been the difference between having a number 1 track or just a top 10 single.

2pac is definitely not the angel that his mum tries to paint him out to be. He had his wrongs but in the end when you really think about it, the man was right. He still is right today.

 

[Kadafi Son]

^^^
finally, a post that recognized Pac's other positive side

 

[Ristol]

I'm scared for some of you.

We all recognize Tupac's positive side. Why else did we come to this board in the first place? We all recognize his capacity for wonder, his romantic nature, and his force of personality. But there's room for discussion, people. Should I have made a thread called PAC WUZ GOD, YER ALL STUPIT? No. That thread would not be good.

Why do so many of you seem to take it personally when people refer to Tupac as anything less than a saint or martyr? He was neither of these things, and while none of you are saying he was, a lot of you are implying it.

A martyr is someone who dies for his beliefs rather than renouncing them. Tupac died for nothing. It was a senseless murder echoing the senseless beating he had given a gang member not an hour before.

I am a devoted fan of Tupac and I’ve read the few pages of that "screenplay" that were released in the companion book to Tupac: Resurrection. A fifth-grader could have written a better screenplay.

I don't give much credence to writing classes, but God knows I've been in a lot of them, and his bullshit would not stand up to any sort of criticism. I'm not here to arbitrarily bash a guy for lacking talent or invigoration in his prose. We all do what we can, after all. But for you to list that as an accomplishment, to call him a screenwriter, is criminally ridiculous.

Haven't we all read his poetry book? Shakespeare he wasn't. He wasn't even Bob Dylan.

The fact is America has its heroes and poets of every color. There is no place for Tupac in that pantheon.

He belongs to rap music, where he made his only lasting mark. I love Tupac's music and will share it with my children in the future. But you know what? I’m going to share Hamlet, Ulysses, Moby-Dick, and Beloved with them too. And I’ll be sure they know the difference.