Tupac's lyricism

[Shadows]

People always claim he's the best rapper but when they mention lyrics, they always say he sucked in that regard.

WHY?


I think his lyrics make him the best rapper.

Just b/c he doesn't have difficulty rhyming schemes doesn't mean much imo. (Though 7 day theory got a bit more complicated).

It's his content that matters.


Tell me why you think others have better lyrics w/ similar content.

 

[Chronic]

I'm never anal about using the 'correct' term but to me there's a difference between an emcee and a rapper. An emcee is a title you earn through crafting and honing specific skills. A rapper is anyone who picks up a microphone and raps, usually in order to make a studio album. Dr. Dre and Puffy are rappers, not emcees (An emcee is always a rapper, just not vice versa). All a rapper needs to achieve is to be a good artist. Dr. Dre wins in this department and I respect his rapping, Puffy fails miserably, he's horrible no matter what he does.
An emcee only uses lyrical content to demonstrate his skills, beyond that it doesn't matter what the emcee talks about. 2Pac's lyrical content is part of what made him a good rapper, a good artist. But the way you choose your words is part of what an emcee does. 2Pac did choose his words very well but it seems to be more of a testament to his general ability to express himself, rather than a vehicle for emceeing. He doesn't choose his words the way Rakim does it. Forget the 2Pac studio songs, the emotion he puts into his music, all the things people love and just think of the 2Pac the freestyler. Shock G even said it, 2Pac didn't blow you away with his skills in the beginning. Imagine a battle between 2Pac and Canibus. 2Pac might impress you with his passion but if you had objective judges judging an emceeing contest 2Pac wouldn't stand a chance. On the other hand Canibus isn't a very good artist and a genuine showcasing of his talents is usually reserved for great guest appearances, mixtape songs etc. (see Bun-B). What an emcee does is unique to that skill. You don't find that type of writing in any other genre. If you wanted to demonstrate that type of writing you wouldn't use 2Pac as an example.

If you'd compile a list of best emcees you shouldn't think of 2Pac.
Best rappers, 2Pac is obviously up there.

With all that said, I do think he was a great emcee during 93-95 (my favorite era) and showed he was capable of it but most people favor Death Row where I feel he was a better artist.

It's like if you ask who's the best guitarist. Are you going to look at live recordings for raw skills, virtuosity, improvisational skills etc. or are you going to look at studio output and which guitarist can take a song to new heights with a fitting guitar lead or solo etc.?

 

[masta247]

I don't really separate emcees and rappers that much anymore. It's not that rappers don't have to focus on specific skills. Every rapper has different skills, even soulja boy has some (even if lyrics are not one of them). Lyrics are not everything - it works in a same way for emcees. Some rappers and emcees are just not great lyricists. A good emcee might have a great wordplay but terrible content. I think it's hard to separate rappers from emcees and at the moment most people define them either by their commercial success or by their wordplay/ rapping technique.
In this thread in 2pac's case we're talking just about whether he was a good lyricist I suppose.
Well, 2pac was a great lyricist in his early career but still people (including me) prefer his late albums (DR era). It's because he made better songs at that time - better melody, beats and all these emotions you could just feel while listening to him.
Sometimes it's more important how you say something than what you really want to say.
You might have the best message but still bore people to death. 2pac often did the opposite. When Pac said "Fuck you too n****, I'm a thug, bitch" it could make you reminisce about the most awesome moments of your life, just because he said it that way. You don't have to understand all of his lyrics to feel how awesome he was.

Then if you strip his songs off any emotions and analyze just the very content you might think that his lyrics suck. He repeats himself numerous times while using cuss words that don't really appeal to me and making up not so convincing stories. If you're young or not so capable of understanding what he said you might be impressed just because of the way he makes you feel. Then it's just a feeling that's left (and a few songs where he really did well lyrics-wise) and it's enough to love 2pac.

 

[Bender]

2pac was an artist, rapper, poet, all combined into one, Pac's lyrics are a lot more dimensional than other rappers.

Pac would say shit like 'everytime i see the paper, i see my picture' - anyone who looks at tupac for his thug image is gonna think 'newspapers and mugshots' from that line.
but where i see 2pac as an artist, i imagine a pad of paper in front of him with a picture of words, his rap sheet/lyrics down on paper. same thing but different perspective.
i think people often get blinded/confused by tupacs portrayal of a thug, and that of an artist.

 

[Freedom Froggy]

pacs vocab wasnt huge, but the "big" words he did use, he used them correctly and always made sure you under stood what he was trying to say, no matter if he was calm or being aggressive.

he was also simple but made simple things like "nyggas knew we came for murder, pulling up in a hearse" sound great

i love pac for being able to push his emotion and passion thru the same mic as his ability to actually put the words together and make them understandable

 

[Bender]

pacs vocab wasnt huge, but the "big" words he did use, he used them correctly and always made sure you under stood what he was trying to say, no matter if he was calm or being aggressive.

...

i disagree.

Tupac's understanding of language goes way beyond that of Shakespeare and the likes, we're talking about a poet.

you are talking about a man that had read a shit load of books, how could you ever say that pac's vocabulary wasn't substantial because of this.

to me pac's use of vocabulary is somewhat mind-blowing sometimes often more than not, though i would say his lyrics definitely make it confusing to try and tune into his own mind set.

tupac wrote lyrics from the perspective of a poet/writer/artist, combined with the concepts of political, military, and thug stereotype egotism

 

[S O F I]

Beyond that of Shakespeare?

You're as dumb as you look.

 

[Chronic]

Pac would say shit like 'everytime i see the paper, i see my picture' - anyone who looks at tupac for his thug image is gonna think 'newspapers and mugshots' from that line.
but where i see 2pac as an artist, i imagine a pad of paper in front of him with a picture of words, his rap sheet/lyrics down on paper. same thing but different perspective.

You missed half of that line man, you need to overanalyze even further.

Every time he sees the paper (money) he sees his picture. This was 2Pac's way of saying he one day wanted his face on a dollar bill.

Every time he sees the paper (a poster) he sees his picture. People are handing out "Have you seen me?" posters with 2Pac's picture. This was 2Pac's way of saying he felt lost.

Every time he sees the paper (made from trees) he sees his picture (he sees himself in the trees). This was 2Pac's cry of pain over deforestation. That's also why he talked about smoking weed in his lyrics, because hemp can be used to make paper. People don't realize that 2Pac had a whole environmental thing going on in his lyrics.

 

[Bender]

i had the deforestation theory down too, that is some deep shit

i take it you're not looking forward to when Shakurespeare drops sofi

 

[Kobe]

I remember reading a thread about why Jay-Z gets so much props yet the person who started the topic, just couldn't get why it was so. After a lot of name calling going on in that thread, I gave my opinion that, I guess you either get Jay-Z's music or you don't. I'd say the same goes with 2pac's music.

When I listen to the song "me against the world", I'm always loving 2pac's delivery on that song. I know how the song goes but, whenever I try to ad lib to what he is saying in some parts, I just can't. I think it's only one small bit on the final verse and a bit of the first verse that I can rap along to. Then there are songs like "unconditional love", where he simply just raps over a beat and, I pick up each and every lyric on the song. True, its a simply written sing but its powerful to me. All in all, whatever style he decides to use, the lyrical content is amazing. That's why I can listen to a 1995 record of 2pac a lot more than any other hip hop music that is put out today.

Eminem, to me is the current definition of emcee and studio rapper. I hear him freestyle over a beat and, I think its sounds awesome. I hear him rap on his album and, I think it sounds awesome (relapse LP disclaimer). I think that's why as dodgy as some of the topics on his songs, he comes in 2nd for me, after 2pac.

Anyway, when people say 2pac's lyrics sucked, I have NO idea what they mean. They may not be complex or technically put together the way other rappers would but, the content is what rules.

 

[Kadafi Son]

I remember reading a thread about why Jay-Z gets so much props yet the person who started the topic, just couldn't get why it was so. After a lot of name calling going on in that thread, I gave my opinion that, I guess you either get Jay-Z's music or you don't. I'd say the same goes with 2pac's music.

When I listen to the song "me against the world", I'm always loving 2pac's delivery on that song. I know how the song goes but, whenever I try to ad lib to what he is saying in some parts, I just can't. I think it's only one small bit on the final verse and a bit of the first verse that I can rap along to. Then there are songs like "unconditional love", where he simply just raps over a beat and, I pick up each and every lyric on the song. True, its a simply written sing but its powerful to me. All in all, whatever style he decides to use, the lyrical content is amazing. That's why I can listen to a 1995 record of 2pac a lot more than any other hip hop music that is put out today.

great point

 

[Shadows]

I remember reading a thread about why Jay-Z gets so much props yet the person who started the topic, just couldn't get why it was so. After a lot of name calling going on in that thread, I gave my opinion that, I guess you either get Jay-Z's music or you don't. I'd say the same goes with 2pac's music.

When I listen to the song "me against the world", I'm always loving 2pac's delivery on that song. I know how the song goes but, whenever I try to ad lib to what he is saying in some parts, I just can't. I think it's only one small bit on the final verse and a bit of the first verse that I can rap along to. Then there are songs like "unconditional love", where he simply just raps over a beat and, I pick up each and every lyric on the song. True, its a simply written sing but its powerful to me. All in all, whatever style he decides to use, the lyrical content is amazing. That's why I can listen to a 1995 record of 2pac a lot more than any other hip hop music that is put out today.

Eminem, to me is the current definition of emcee and studio rapper. I hear him freestyle over a beat and, I think its sounds awesome. I hear him rap on his album and, I think it sounds awesome (relapse LP disclaimer). I think that's why as dodgy as some of the topics on his songs, he comes in 2nd for me, after 2pac.

Anyway, when people say 2pac's lyrics sucked, I have NO idea what they mean. They may not be complex or technically put together the way other rappers would but, the content is what rules.

That's where I was getting at.