Thug Angel 2, Napo's statements

[KJ1]

I watched this on Fuse a couple of nights ago and it was pretty good, but short... Had some things said by Napo that I didn't know, but may be common knowledge to most of you.... He was very open and truthful with the questions that he was asked, especially involving the beef with the New York guys and Bad Boy.... When talking about how loyal tupac was to his friends , Napo said that Puffy had put the bounty on the Death Row chains and that they were going to use the medallion in a video if they could get one.... That may be common knowledge, but I always just thought the Southside Crips were the ones who put the bounty on the chain...

He went then on to explain that Orlando was the one that snatched the chain and that is why Tupac fought him at the casino... And we all knew that , but I had no idea that Puffy was the one offering the money to them for snatching the chain...

So really Puffy is one of the main reasons, if not the main reason, we lost Tupac and Biggie.... And I don't think he holds enough blame in this whole thing.... Kind of makes you wonder what else he was offering to pay for... Remember the Chuck Phillips article, which was based on false documents, but that doesn't mean some of that was not true... Maybe after the fight at the casino, those guys did call Puffy or Biggie and try to get some money for killing Pac??

Sorry if this was all known by you all, but I found it very interesting that Puffy had that big of an impact on the events that led to Pac getting killed... Pac still jumped the guy that ultimately killed him, but if Puffy had not put the bounty on the medallion, that would not have happened...

Napo also said he was there when Stretch came in and told Pac that Jimmy Henchman said he (pac) didn't want to go to war with him, he didn't even have his money right....

They did mute the names of Puffy and Henchman when Napo was talking about them but you could see what he was saying....

Not much going on in here , just wanting to see what people think about that if you didn't already know that.... But knowing Puffy had a direct impact on the deaths of those two legends makes my dislike for him that much worse.... If he doesn't put that bounty out their Pac may still not be with us, but it would have been different circumstances and Biggie would probably still be here .....

But I still say that if Biggie would have just went to see Pac in jail and straightened all that out, that beef would have never happened... It seems everyone pretty much blames Pac for the whole thing, but Biggie must have felt he did something wrong for him to not go see Pac when Pac was blaming him for the shooting.... Mopreme touches on that in the video, saying Big did tell Pac there were some shady things going on with those guys but when it came time for the set up, Biggie didn't say anything....

 

[Rukas]

Bad Boy would employ Crips as security whenever they were in LA pretty much because Death Row was surrounded by Bloods so it made sense. That is where the whole involvement came into it.

 

[Pittsey]

Blaming Diddy is too easy.

Why wouldn't he put a bounty on a DR chain? It would have been a coup and a battle won to display it in a video. If this is indeed the case. Napoleon does't know for sure. It's just what he has been told.

Pac was responsible for his own death. And not just because he jumped Orlando. He fed into this whole West, East beef. He glamorised the gang culture and created the persona that ultimately killed him. It created interest in him, made him a legend and a huge star. But it also killed him.

While most people hate 50 Cent on here, and consider him a phoney. He has been able to nurture his "thug" image while remaining concentrated on business and keeping himself mostly out of dangerous situations. It is something 2pac should have done. The main artist on DR records should never have been allowed to get involved in petty street fights.

 

[stefanwzyga]

Pac was responsible for his own death. And not just because he jumped Orlando. He fed into this whole West, East beef. He glamorised the gang culture and created the persona that ultimately killed him. It created interest in him, made him a legend and a huge star. But it also killed him.

True words.

 

[EDouble]

yeah i saw part of this the other week
2 add on Orlando was with bad boy the ngiht Biggie was shot

Pittsey: total bullshit. you wanna know whats 'too easy'? sayin Pac was "responsible for his own murder"

we're discussing the circumstances of the murder and people involved not whether Pac had detrimental ways

its a fact like Ruk said Southside was Bad Boys security

 

[Pittsey]

^^

I disagree. You are an obsessed tupac fan, so would feel like that. I bet you hate Jay-Z, Chino Xl and Mobb Deep too.

 

[EDouble]

...feel like what?

where does Jay Z Chino or Mobb Deep come in?

 

[EDouble]

2 clarify I think the angle youre taking here is bullshit
irregardless if Pac was drawn to or welcomed different problems, this was a discussion of circumstances/facts that ultimately in part led to his murder

 

[Pittsey]

^^

I am afraid you don't get to tell me what I am discussing.


And in case I still disagree. Where is the proof that it was Orlando that killed him, or that the shooting was in response to the fight. Or that Diddy put any money towards the snatching of a chain. It is all here say.


This is also the reason I don't post in here. 2pac fans are delusional and crazy. Probably the same reason most of the older fans no longer want to post discussion in here either.

 

[EDouble]

I dont give a fuck what you discuss im telling you its bullshit in this post

Im not 100% sure Orlando did kill him, & or that it was in response, but since its fact that they were security for Bad Boy you cant doubt Bad boy was fuckin connected 2 getting a death row chain, or if not directly obviously they were going to present it to bad boy /Puffy

Im not just gonna hate "Jay Z or Mobb Deep" but unlike you i wont give automatic credibility to some one in a position opposite of Pac's just because they were in a position opposite of Pac's and you have issues about it

 

[KJ1]

I'm not trying to start an argument here, but where in this thread has anyone said anything that is delusional and crazy.... Yeah, I guess those things are hearsay, but look at the source that most of that info comes from.... Personally I believe what Napolean would say based on his dedication to his religion and why would he lie about something like that....

And why do we assume that Pac was hanging with Suge and the bloods because he was glorifying gang culture... Like Napo said, he had people calling saying they were going to do whatever to kill him.... Those guys were most likely Henchman and Tut who were affiliated with Bad Boy.... Most likely the guys who Pac was referring to as extorting Puffy, maybe helped finance Bad Boy at the beginning?? We will probably never know for sure... But by what Napo said they were trying to kill him... Like was also said in the doc., Suge could also help him with that problem.... I think he alligned himself with Suge and his affiliations just because he needed protection and their enemies just happened to be the same.... Where did Pac openly glorify gang culture?? Yeah he yelled MOB which I guess could be taken as that, but it wasn't like he was claiming to be a blood....

And you could also say that by jumping Orlando he was doing it for the Bloods, but it's much more believable that he jumped Orlando because he took a DR chain because Puffy was going to pay for it and put it in a video.... But we really will never know...

And just because some of us may disagree with what happened back then, that doesn't make any of us delusional... If I was saying Tupac set all that up and is coming back in 2014, now that's delusional....

I'm just saying Puffy is not innocent in all that stuff that happened as he claims to be and is portrayed to be.... I dislike Puffy and a lot of that probably stems from the Pac stuff, but the real reasons are he is fake, seeing the way he was on those "Band" shows, even if he is not really that way he wants us to think he is and he was an asshole on those shows.... Just his whole little act irritates me.... And I have never liked anything he has done as a rapper... He did remake some beats and I give him props for seeing he could make hits out of that...

I have no problem with Mobb Deep, Nas, Dre, Biggie, and other people he had little beefs with... I'm not a fan of Jay and that has absolutely nothing to do with Pac....

The reality is that we just don't know enough about why Pac got shot the first time and how that relates to Bad Boy.... And unfortunately Pac spent his last year feeling like he needed to let people know that Big and Puffy were not what they claimed to be.... It did make him more popular but also has kind of given him a villian image when it comes to the East West thing... Even though Pac himself said on a number of occasions before his death that the media turned a problem between him and Biggie into a East West thing..... So he really didn't feed into that whole thing.... But he is looked at as a negative in all that even though we really don't know why he was mad at them in the first place other than Biggie not warning him about the shooting even though it goes deeper than that.... But Puffy is looked at as a positive even though he had an impact on the outcome of that situation...

Fatal said himself in an interview that Pac was killed for beating somebody down and he underestimated the guy's reaction to that... He was a part of that time in Pac's life so I believe him.... Napo said Puffy put the bounty on the chain, and I believe him.... Pac jumped Orlando because he did what he did for Puffy, it's not hard to connect those dots.... Maybe I am wrong with that conclusion but it makes sense... Pac made the decision to do what he did to Orlando, but if Puffy had never put a bounty on it, would that have happened... There is blame on all sides... But Pac does share a big portion of all that...

 

[KJ1]

Sorry my posts are so long, instead of making a few small posts, I just ramble on and don't realize for how long until I post it....

I just wanted to clarify I'm not blaming Puffy or anybody else really....

And you can't really compare Pac and 50 because 50 had the benefit of learning from Pac's mistakes.... And while Pac may have rapped about things that were part of gang culture the majority of that was the negative side of that life even though some may have taken it as glorification.... The AEOM material was a little more "gangster" I guess but that was just one album.... But he did hang out with guys while on DR that were Bloods, so guilt by association I guess.... But maybe the reasons for that were more for protection than glamorization....

If guys like QD3, Quincy Jones SR, and some others are right, Pac was just about to make this big change in content and start being more business oriented.... If the casino fight doesn't happen maybe we get to see that shift....

I think it is naive to dismiss what many of the people that were close to Pac have said about the situation....

It doesn't really matter , this is just a discussion about what Napo said on the video.... I thought it was kind of profound that Puffy plays the victim role in that situation but had a hand in feeding into it himself.... I'm always going to be a Tupac fan and while I may be biased that does not make me delusional....

 

[Pittsey]

I dont give a fuck what you discuss im telling you its bullshit in this post

Im not 100% sure Orlando did kill him, & or that it was in response, but since its fact that they were security for Bad Boy you cant doubt Bad boy was fuckin connected 2 getting a death row chain, or if not directly obviously they were going to present it to bad boy /Puffy

Im not just gonna hate "Jay Z or Mobb Deep" but unlike you i wont give automatic credibility to some one in a position opposite of Pac's just because they were in a position opposite of Pac's and you have issues about it

You are a silly little boy. The line I've bolded makes no sense to me. I am not asking for "automatic credibility" not that it makes much sense. Do you put those 2 words together in a sentence in real life?

You know very little of the Crips it seems. There are 1000's of crips in LA. Many more than bloods. So many in fact that it isn't jsut Crips Vs Bloods. But Crips Vs Crips. Crips kill different "branches" of Crips. Because if they didn't they wouldn't get to shoot as many people as often, and where would the fun be in that. Therefore just because Orlando is claiming to be a Crip, doesn't mean he has any affiliation or connection to the Crips that Puffy used for security.

The most logical reason for Orlando to snatch a DR chain, is that DR are affiliated (very strongly) with the Piru street Bloods. After all Bloods Vs Crips is the stronger of the gang hatreds. By beating Orlando Pac was making a very strong statement about gang affiliation. He was basically saying he stands with the bloods. I don't know if it was intentional, as I find it hard to believe he is ignorant enough to become part of a gang. But we've all seen the Gobi footage where Pac claims he "is in a gang".

KJ1 - As for Napo. I am not claiming he is a liar. I think he is telling the truth. It's what he believes. But it is all heresay. For example. If I was Orlando and I got beat down by Bloods. And then Pac got killed by someone. I'd be claiming it was me, even if it wasn't. Because I am a gang member and my ego would be damaged. By claiming to kill the diamond in the DR (Piru Bloods) crown, I would gain a lot of love and attention.

I'm not saying it wasn't Orlando. And I'm not saying it is. I don't know. What I am saying is those events wouldn't have happened if 2pac didn't feel the need to prove his image time and time again. Trouble followed him, because of his actions.

I also agree with you about Puffy. I don't think many people perceived him as a victim though. He regularly made comments such as "bad boys move in silence". And there were many veiled attacks after Pac died. I don't know how old you are, but if you were following in 94-96 then things seemed a lot different then than they do now. I'd imagine even more so if you are American, as I was following from England where news companies didn't follow the going ons to the same degree. And the internet wasn't as comprehensive then. And I didn't have it anyway.

 

[Pittsey]

I feel I have exhausted this thread, and we have discussed all this to death anyway. So I will probably not post again. I lose a few braincells every time I come into this part of the forum.

 

[EDouble]

Therefore just because Orlando is claiming to be a Crip, doesn't mean he has any affiliation or connection to the Crips that Puffy used for security.

what the fuck r you talking? I wrote southside i didnt connect it just because Orlando was a crip i connected it because Orlando was southside and bad boy employed southside

affiliated (very strongly) with the Piru street Bloods. After all Bloods Vs Crips is the stronger of the gang hatreds.

now your losing your own argument u go on about "Crips vs Crips" now its a random "Crips vs Blood"

I'm not saying it wasn't Orlando. And I'm not saying it is. I don't know. What I am saying is those events wouldn't have happened if 2pac didn't feel the need to prove his image time and time again. Trouble followed him, because of his actions.

bad boy & death row were beefing before Pac signed

 

[Pittsey]

^^

Pointless. Anyone with one iota of intelligence would see what I was saying. You don't, so you do the math!

 

[EDouble]

"i feel i have exhausted this thread" that's comedy and you know this

 

[Pittsey]

^^

This thread exhausted me. Although I didn't realise we were discussing me.

 

[Casey]

You guys need to dig a bit deeper. It's a LOT more complex than just being some gang shit. A helluva lot more.

The more you understand about the issue, the more you do your research on the persecution of the Panthers, specifically the Shakurs and their close associates (Afeni, Mutulu, Geronimo, Assata, Kadafi's father Sekou Odinga.... the list goes on). Research your history on ALL of those people, their roles in the Panthers, and how they were ALL targeted by COINTELPRO. Now understand that Tupac, like all his family, was considered a threat BEFORE he even became a superstar. Remember that he was the leader of the New Afrikan Panthers and had been targeted by the FBI since he was a TEEN.

I don't believe it was a coincidence that Pac was arrested and beaten for something as minor as jaywalking AND singled out by the VICE PRESIDENT for that cop getting shot, shortly after the release of 2PACALYPSE NOW, which you have to remember, wasn't even a massive hit compared to other hip-hop albums of that year, many of which were far more violent and even more sociopolitically fierce (Ice Cube's AMERIKKKAZ MOST WANTED springs to mind). I don't believe it was a coincidence that 'Pac was straight up FRAMED for the rape case - in a similar fashion to all his relatives above being framed for various "crimes". Hell, Assata is still hiding in Cuba because she's considered a terrorist. Geronimo was in jail for 27 years before they had to release him because it came to light that the prosecution withheld key evidence that would have exonerated him in the first place.

Don't forget the fact that ALL hits, especially high profile ones, in Vegas have to go through the mob. They own the whole city. You'd have to be an idiot to take someone that famous out in Vegas without mob involvement. And the mafia don't waste their time on petty gang shit. It's beneath them. Someone bought their co-operation. No doubt about it. Kadafi said he could identify the killer, yet they didn't detain him as a witness, and weeks later he's dead too.

The gang shit is a convenient smoke-screen to try and move attention away from the people pulling the strings. They want you believe it was just some gang shit. They want you to believe it's just some rap feud shit. Don't forget we KNOW who killed BIG - David Mack and Ray Perez. Both LAPD. More covering up to try and fool people to thinking it's just some street level shit.

There's a whole lot more to this issue than meets the eye.

 

[EDouble]

NY cases I think were mostly street & uptown/bad boy connected but likely than not they were set up obviously the shooting was

Vegas isnt owned by the mob any more


edit-I've got 2 come back in a while to make more sens