I may go vegan

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
Can both sides provide some literature references? I'd like to know more about this type of stuff, beyond what a basic google search has to offer.
Both sides are spouting propaganda. A healthy balanced diet without processed foods is the way forward. I have cut down on my meat intake due to health reasons, it was an experiment that seems to be working. It works for me, but it may not for you. The Atkins diet, for example, is all kinds of wrong. The goal should be to lose weight healthily, not to lose it as quick as possible. A friend of mine has gone from 18 stone to 10 stone in a year. He only eats 3 times a week. If he isn't careful he is going to kill himself. I have tried to talk to him, but he doesn't want to be fat, and he only wants to eat takeaway, as he likes it. So he just starves himself and then pigs out on bad foods. He also drinks a bottle of red wine a day. All kinds of wrong.

I personally wouldn't want to consume a huge amount of protein. But people who are looking to get big in the gym, find it helps. My brother consumes a ridiculous amount of protein a day, I assume that is what Rukas is doing too. A couple of guys I work with are taking all sorts of pills, and it seems to be paying off. But I prefer clean living and a lean-ish body. I am not self conscious (maybe I should be? ;) ) and I am trying to put health before my looks. But... I am getting older now. I have left my 20s and I am conscious that my 30s will fly by and I'll be 40.... So... I am looking to improve my health now.

yeah, i know a lot of people bash on crossfit, but like, if my chest is pounding like i'm dying cause i'm tired as fuck from cardio and if i'm sore as fuck the next two days, it fucking works. you know what I mean?
I don't really know what it is. But.... If you want to get big muscles ( I don't think you do) then you have to live the biggest weights you can. Which is probably not what crossfit is, and probably why people slate it.
 

ARon

Well-Known Member
yeah, i know a lot of people bash on crossfit, but like, if my chest is pounding like i'm dying cause i'm tired as fuck from cardio and if i'm sore as fuck the next two days, it fucking works. you know what I mean?
I'm a fan of crossfit but it's not hard to tire you out or make you sore from working out. For me the problem with crossfit is that people jump into to it with out proper training and using poor technique. You can get certified to teach crossfit in 2 days now, it's ridiculous. Like that video I posted, people at actual gyms being encouraged by actual trainers to lift way too much weight with improper form, it hurts just watching it.
 

Casey

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Casey, sorry to break it to you, you're not Michael Jackson.

You're skinny, you may have good cardio, maybe, but you're no fitness specimen. Your body looks like that Simpsons episode where Mr. Burns has a physical and ends up turning into an alien.

There's a saying I love, "abs on a skinny guy are like big boobs on a fat chick, they don't count." You don't even have abs. That's what I mean by skinny fat. You're out of shape.

Michael Jackson had staff that did everything for him. You don't. I bet you struggle carrying a sack of potatoes from the grocery store to your car.

PS. No one wants to look like a pro bodybuilder.
LOL. You've never seen my body, so you just have an overactive imagination and I suggest you stop thinking about me so much. The fact is - you know nothing about what I look like. I don't struggle to carry anything. Once again, all I need is to be able to do a two hour performance with a LOT of dancing, night after night. And I can. Easily.

So what does out of shape mean in your world? I have no extra weight on my body. I'm perfectly in shape for health, circulation, and my needs as an individual. If I needed to lift really heavy stuff day after day, then sure, give me some weights to lift. But I don't. I'm a professional songwriter, vocalist, musician and dancer. So every day, my "training" regimen involves, funnily enough, vocal practice, instrument practice, songwriting and dance practice.

Any consumption of meat or animal by-products puts cholesterol in your body, that over time will clog your veins even on low-level consumption. I don't want or need that shit in my body. Any consumption of meat or animal by-products also increases your risk of heart attacks and strokes. These are facts.

I don't even know why you showed up in this thread. You come in here and accuse me of preaching, in a thread I didn't even start. I don't think I've discussed veganism in MONTHS here until Coonie made this thread, which is about HIM and HIS choices, so you need to get off my case. And your other snide comment (getting all catty up in here, mrrrowwww!) is just pure ridiculousness and fantasy, because again - you don't know me. I don't give a fuck about your obvious need to vent some frustrated feelings, but I didn't mention you in this thread or anything to do with you, so coming in here and throwing random inaccurate shots at me is 100% lame as fuck. Have a good day.
 

Rukas

Capo Dei Capi
Staff member
LOL. You've never seen my body, so you just have an overactive imagination and I suggest you stop thinking about me so much. The fact is - you know nothing about what I look like.
You forget your own promo material? Im not stalking you or invading your privacy, these are your own photos, these are the publicity shots YOU chose to put out there.

da9049f0e2df11e1a2ab22000a1e87b3_7.jpg


tumblr_m13u5zTpkK1rrbppqo1_r1_500.jpg


I don't struggle to carry anything. Once again, all I need is to be able to do a two hour performance with a LOT of dancing, night after night. And I can. Easily.
You've said before you have a dancer's body. This is a male dancer:



I have a question, if you dont admire a good physique, or see the benefit of it, or wish you had it, why does the cartoon version of you have pectoral muscles that you obviously lack in real life?

tumblr_lydkljUM5I1qdokx3o1_1280.jpg


Why chose that image? Why not use an image that shows how skinny and unmuscular you are? You said before you dont want to look like a bodybuilder, that image right there looks like a bodybuilder.

So what does out of shape mean in your world? I have no extra weight on my body.
Youre what is referred to as "skinny fat." You still have some fat, your abs arent out, you store weight under your face.It could be water weight under your chin from high sodium though.

I'm perfectly in shape for health, circulation, and my needs as an individual. If I needed to lift really heavy stuff day after day, then sure, give me some weights to lift. But I don't. I'm a professional songwriter, vocalist, musician and dancer. So every day, my "training" regimen involves, funnily enough, vocal practice, instrument practice, songwriting and dance practice.
That's fine, but your body should always come first and strength is important, especially later in life.

Any consumption of meat or animal by-products puts cholesterol in your body, that over time will clog your veins even on low-level consumption.
There is good cholesterol, and bad cholesterol. Life is about balance. It is also a precursor to Vitamin D, which is one of the most important vitamins in the body. Cholesterol is also the building block for sex hormones, testosterone, costisol and aldosterone (which both regulate blood pressure and stress) and regulate water retention (you have some around your face like I mentioned, no big deal but it's a sign).

I don't want or need that shit in my body.
You dont need any of those? Not even testosterone? Explains a lot, you are pretty feminine...

Any consumption of meat or animal by-products also increases your risk of heart attacks and strokes. These are facts.
LOL you and your "facts." This is total BS. This summarizes it: http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/01/06/vegetarians-and-heart-disease/

Since so many vegetarian-versus-omnivore studies are comparing a complete lifestyle overhaul (health-savvy vegetarianism) with health indifference (standard “eat-whatever’s-there” omnivorism), it’s pretty hard to find a vegetarian study that can actually isolate the effects of meat. When a vegetarian’s main diet change is avoiding animal flesh rather than emphasizing fresh produce and moving away from refined foods, the health outcomes aren’t much different than those of standard omnivores (except for the added burden of higher homocysteine).​

There you go. It's not the lack of meat that improves a vegetarian's health (and they actually generally have higher blood pressure due to a high level of sodium in their diet) it is the move away from refined foods, which I ALWAYS advocate. Eat a balanced, lean, healthy diet, full of as much unprocessed food as possible. Count your calories, if you want to lose weight eat under your body's maintenance level, if you want to gain wait eat above it.

Im sure you will come up with some pro-vegan facts, but that quote above summarizes it PERFECTLY. You're just too religious about it to ever admit the truth.

I don't even know why you showed up in this thread. You come in here and accuse me of preaching, in a thread I didn't even start. I don't think I've discussed veganism in MONTHS here until Coonie made this thread, which is about HIM and HIS choices,
Coonie asked how to live a healthy lifestyle, and you came forth claiming Veganism is the answer! It isnt. You're fucking with people's actual health based on your beliefs, and your diet may work for you if you only care about your voice and songwriting, but it doesnt work for anyone who is active, has to run around all day going to class, etc etc. All you've said so far is your body is fine for YOUR needs, cool, super, I dont agree, but if you do, fine, but those are YOUR needs, YOUR diet is based around YOUR needs, so stop pretending YOUR diet is the answer for everyone else, it isn't. And you're right, this response IS a culmination of all of my frustration with you in all of these vegan threads. You push what works for you, which is debatable, onto everyone else and act like they're shit people if they dont do what you do.You want to be a skinny twig with a lack of testosterone and sex hormones, that's fine, you've always looked up to effeminate men anyway, and that's you, that is fine, that is why perhaps your diet works for your effeminate lifestyle and the image you want to portray (again I ask, then why the cartoon?). But dont push your beliefs onto others, especially those desperate and willing to try anything to get in shape, because they will fuck themselves up more than they already are.

If they are over weight, and become effeminate, you know what will happen? GYNO! Bitch tits. That is what a lack of natural testosterone production leads to.

If they are over weight, and drastically cut out their protein intake and calorie intake, you know what will happen? They will lose energy, faint, become sick, or tons of other complications.

A BALANCED diet is what is needed.

so you need to get off my case. And your other snide comment (getting all catty up in here, mrrrowwww!) is just pure ridiculousness and fantasy, because again - you don't know me. I don't give a fuck about your obvious need to vent some frustrated feelings, but I didn't mention you in this thread or anything to do with you, so coming in here and throwing random inaccurate shots at me is 100% lame as fuck. Have a good day.
No snide comment, but it's the only way I can show people in this thread, and maybe you, that your diet is not as healthy as you preach it to be. And I apologize for using your photos, but like I said, I didnt go get personal facebook pics, those are your own promo photos you released on your Tumblr.

And I apologize if it seems like I am attacking you, Im not, Im disputing the evidence and information you provide. Unfortunately when you put so much of yourself into it, it can be hard to distinguish the two. Perhaps that is my shortcoming as a debater. So dont try to play the victim and act like Ive got something against you, I have nothing to have against you other than the above stated.

Even your avatar shows your preachy bullshit. "Never trust an ex-Vegan." Right, so people who had to abandon the diet for health reasons, or simply changed their mind, fuck them right? You know, freedom, freewill, health, all thats hit, fuck that right?

At the end of the day, YOUR diet and lifestyle reflect YOUR life goals. If you had to chose a body below, you'd obviously chose the one on the left, where as I'd chose the one on the right. I dont ever want to be THAT big, but if they HAD to chose one or the other, I'd bet most men would chose the right one. You look like the chick on the left, except less toned and weaker.

A009-YZCAAAz2pi.jpg large.jpg
 

Rukas

Capo Dei Capi
Staff member
Both sides are spouting propaganda. A healthy balanced diet without processed foods is the way forward.
This is what Ive always said.

The Atkins diet, for example, is all kinds of wrong. The goal should be to lose weight healthily, not to lose it as quick as possible.
This I dont agree with. Atkins is a viable option, it isnt about losing weight "as quick as possible," it's about losing it as efficiently as possible.

Carbs are basically processed foods and sugars. If you try to eat unprocessed food and meat you're pretty much cutting out all the carbs anyway, because most of the carbs found in veggies are actually fiber.

So a low-carb diet is fine, it is basically what humans ate before the ability to buy processed food.

A friend of mine has gone from 18 stone to 10 stone in a year. He only eats 3 times a week. If he isn't careful he is going to kill himself. I have tried to talk to him, but he doesn't want to be fat, and he only wants to eat takeaway, as he likes it. So he just starves himself and then pigs out on bad foods. He also drinks a bottle of red wine a day. All kinds of wrong.
That is horrible, but you lumped it in with the Atkins diet paragraph and I dont think the two go hand in hand. His problem isnt the Atkins diet, but the fact he only eats 3 times a week.

I have a female friend we're all pretty worried about, she's not only gone vegan but she's basically stopped eating and is so skinny right now you can see her knee caps if you know what I mean. I wouldnt mind if she was vegan, it's her choice, but just wish she would at least EAT the right amount of calories, wherever she gets them from, rather than living off of green tea and a small amount of nuts or grains.

I personally wouldn't want to consume a huge amount of protein. But people who are looking to get big in the gym, find it helps. My brother consumes a ridiculous amount of protein a day, I assume that is what Rukas is doing too.
Nah I dont, I eat 1 gram of protein for 1lb of LEAN body weight. I rarely use protein powders and get my protein from lean meats as often as possible nowadays, but do have a shake here or there when on the run if I absolutely need to.

If you eat too much protein, you just shit it out anyway. There is only so much your body can use. If they're consuming a ton of protein and seeing benefits, what they're actually benefiting from is the added calories the protein gives them rather than the protein itself.

A couple of guys I work with are taking all sorts of pills, and it seems to be paying off. But I prefer clean living and a lean-ish body. I am not self conscious (maybe I should be? ;) ) and I am trying to put health before my looks. But... I am getting older now. I have left my 20s and I am conscious that my 30s will fly by and I'll be 40.... So... I am looking to improve my health now.
In my opinion, the ONLY thing that actually works, is a multivitamin and fish oil. Gotta look after those joints! Everything else comes down to diet and lifestyle. All other supplements are bullshit, dont work, over priced, bad for the liver, etc. The may as well just do a light cycle of steroids, it'll ironically probably be healither, cheaper, and work more than what they're paying for.

But diet is key.

Although when I get older, Ill probably go on TRT, because, I cant imagine life without testosterone.

I don't really know what it is. But.... If you want to get big muscles ( I don't think you do) then you have to live the biggest weights you can. Which is probably not what crossfit is, and probably why people slate it.
You have to lift the right amount of weight, not necessarily the "biggest." For example, I can bench 160kg for one rep. But I work out with 100kg so I can get 10 reps for 3 sets. But I get what you mean ;)
 

Rukas

Capo Dei Capi
Staff member
This comment is BS. Eating right is a no brainer, even in cross fit.

Lifting heavy sounds like what the 14 year olds at the gym say.. they just want to look good for beach season. NOTHING beats cross fit as an all round work out
You're right, but look at the video posted above your post. What horrible form. Crossfit is just a snapped shoulder or disc waiting to happen.
 

Rukas

Capo Dei Capi
Staff member
Vida is a veg bodybuilder :p I'm just saying, bc Ruk posted a pic of her.

I'm not a veg or bodybuildier for the record.
Vida Guerra is a female. Therefore all the testosterone based problems regarding a vegan lifestyle are null and void with her.

Females dont have testosterone and can never get "big."

Any female that you see that is "big" takes male hormones, and when taking steroids, diet choices are pretty much null and void.
 

keco52

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Vida Guerra is a female. Therefore all the testosterone based problems regarding a vegan lifestyle are null and void with her.

Females dont have testosterone and can never get "big."

Any female that you see that is "big" takes male hormones, and when taking steroids, diet choices are pretty much null and void.
I don't know her fitness regimen but women do produce testosterone. Have you ever had a gf with a really high sex drive? She probably had elevated testosterone levels. Anyway, if she is on steroids that's unfortunate but I don't believe all women with muscles are using steroids. Do you think Vida is big? I don't think she's that big at all. In her pix she's obviously flexing...in bodybuilding poses.
 

Rukas

Capo Dei Capi
Staff member
I don't know her fitness regimen but women do produce testosterone. Have you ever had a gf with a really high sex drive? She probably had elevated testosterone levels. Anyway, if she is on steroids that's unfortunate but I don't believe all women with muscles are using steroids. Do you think Vida is big? I don't think she's that big at all. In her pix she's obviously flexing...in bodybuilding poses.
Let me rephrase, women dont have "male levels" of testosterone, and therefore can never get "big."

I dont think Vida is big, no. And you know I like the athletic look on females.

My point was that, the diminishing testosterone production caused by a vegan lifestyle does not affect women as it does men, as they dont produce much testosterone in comparison anyway, and dont rely on it to be "men."

You know testosterone is crazy, give a women male levels of testosterone and she'll basically turn into a man. Her clitoris will even grow into a penis. So like wise, reverse the effect, reduce testosterone levels from males, and they'll adopt female features.
 

Glockmatic

Well-Known Member
This comment is BS. Eating right is a no brainer, even in cross fit.

Lifting heavy sounds like what the 14 year olds at the gym say.. they just want to look good for beach season. NOTHING beats cross fit as an all round work out
Lifting heavy = working your Central Nervous System = you become stronger without even becoming a huge giant like Arnold. It's science.

CrossFit is great if you like to socialize and work out in a group. The problem is that CrossFit promotes TERRIBLE form. Ever see a CrossFitter doing cleans? Dear god, my wrists cry in pain just watching.
 

Glockmatic

Well-Known Member
The Atkins diet, for example, is all kinds of wrong.
The Atkins diet works if you don't go into the diet thinking "I can eat bacon all day every day? Fuck yes". People need to read on how the body uses nutrients. Despite what our countries "Food Pyramid" recommend to us, Dietary Fat is fantastic for you if you want to lose weight. Fat is calorie dense and keeps you full longer, which means you won't be snacking on food through out the day since you're not hungry at all.

You know the old stereotype where if you eat Chinese food you'll be hungry again in 20 minutes? That's because most North American Chinese food is basically all carbs. The insulin rush from the noodles/rice tells your body to get as much as this food in you as possible since you never know when you'll get to eat like this again to store for fat (a trait passed on to us by our primitive ancestors).

I personally wouldn't want to consume a huge amount of protein. But people who are looking to get big in the gym, find it helps. My brother consumes a ridiculous amount of protein a day, I assume that is what Rukas is doing too. A couple of guys I work with are taking all sorts of pills, and it seems to be paying off. But I prefer clean living and a lean-ish body. I am not self conscious (maybe I should be? ;) ) and I am trying to put health before my looks. But... I am getting older now. I have left my 20s and I am conscious that my 30s will fly by and I'll be 40.... So... I am looking to improve my health now.
Health and looks go hand in hand.

I don't really know what it is. But.... If you want to get big muscles ( I don't think you do) then you have to live the biggest weights you can. Which is probably not what crossfit is, and probably why people slate it.
I personally don't lift weights to get big muscles. I lift heavy because I have NEVER had a scenario in my life where I thought "Man, I wish I was weaker...". It's always the contrary...
 

Rukas

Capo Dei Capi
Staff member
The Atkins diet works if you don't go into the diet thinking "I can eat bacon all day every day? Fuck yes". People need to read on how the body uses nutrients. Despite what our countries "Food Pyramid" recommend to us, Dietary Fat is fantastic for you if you want to lose weight. Fat is calorie dense and keeps you full longer, which means you won't be snacking on food through out the day since you're not hungry at all.

You know the old stereotype where if you eat Chinese food you'll be hungry again in 20 minutes? That's because most North American Chinese food is basically all carbs. The insulin rush from the noodles/rice tells your body to get as much as this food in you as possible since you never know when you'll get to eat like this again to store for fat (a trait passed on to us by our primitive ancestors).

Health and looks go hand in hand.

I personally don't lift weights to get big muscles. I lift heavy because I have NEVER had a scenario in my life where I thought "Man, I wish I was weaker...". It's always the contrary...
Right. Weight training also leads to many health benefits that will improve your quality of life not just now but for the span of your life. Lowers blood pressure, improves balance, increases bone density and muscle mass. An increase of muscle mass through weight training and a diet consisting of protein, and one which promotes testosterone levels, leads to a reduced risk of osteoporosis and arthritis as muscle mass takes the pressure off of joints, in addition to the other benefits caused by having a healthy level of testosterone. Increase muscle mass also increases your metabolism, meaning at rest you will burn more fat and thus stay leaner and healthier.

More muscle mass also decreases your risk of metabolic syndrome, diabetes, obesity, heart attacks and premature death.
 

Rukas

Capo Dei Capi
Staff member
It has been reiterated time and time again in this thread but I just want to state it again. A balanced diet, made up of predominately unprocessed foods, lean meats, good sources of carbs and fats, coupled with a weight training program, is the key to a longer and healthier life.

Simply going vegan will lead to nothing other than a complete lack of muscle mass, weakness, lower testosterone, and the health risks that come with all of those.

Eating junk food, processed meats, lots of salts and sugars, will lead to obesity and health problems.

Eating vegan food, OR a balanced diet, in excess of your caloric maintenance level, will lead to obesity too. So to lose weight, you need to count your calories. Likewise, to gain weight or maintain your weight you need to do the same.

Eat smart, lift heavy.
 

Rukas

Capo Dei Capi
Staff member
Well, you are Indian ;) Try using toilet paper next time, instead of your hand ;)

EDIT: Good God why did I click that link?!

 

ARon

Well-Known Member

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
I think you made me coin a new term, NSFL, not safe for life
No, it's been coined before.

Hey, we're all family here.

It's Thursday. It popped Sunday afternoon and has been draining since.

Don't ask what it smelled like. I gag beginning to think about it.

In all seriousness, it probably wasn't not wiping my ass properly. It was because I may have worn a wet pair of boxers out of the wash after leaving it in the hamper for 12 hours. It hadn't dried properly and I still wore it to school. Sitting in the basket, closed up may have harbored bacterial growth. I wore it. It went up my anus and caused an infection.

There are many other causes, but I am not pregnant and hopefully I don't have any inflammatory disease of my GIT. So it has to be that. It started mere two days after I did that wet boxer shit. Worst three weeks of my life.
 

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