Ever get the feeling that maybe it was better for Pac that he died?
- Thread starter omgwtflol
- Start date
that was just off the dome trail of thought...
actually stephen and i have shared the idea of doing a book together sometime. i've also participated in some documentaries, but mainly elect to work behind the scenes. if i could put my energies forward for amaru to maintain a better pulse on the 2pac community i would gladly do it for little or no compensation, but alas, that's just not a reality.
actually stephen and i have shared the idea of doing a book together sometime. i've also participated in some documentaries, but mainly elect to work behind the scenes. if i could put my energies forward for amaru to maintain a better pulse on the 2pac community i would gladly do it for little or no compensation, but alas, that's just not a reality.
As you can see I don't post a whole lot. But I have visited this site for years. I have much respect for your insite and your thoughts. Things you achieve in life are not always for compensation, if you have the oppurtunity definitely take it and write a book, even if it is not about pac.
Much Respect.:thumb:
Much Respect.:thumb:
Dante if i would be the one to review your post i would say, you just told the facts that were facing our imagination. They were true and it's really possible that PAc would do so. The tread is really great but going deeply into it would bring only our imagined predictions that most likely would by innacurate, because there is a chance he would do something stupid, maybe he would die hitten by the train when walking drunk on the railroad. It would be shameful but it was just a stupid possibility, and there are millions of them. He would also totally change, on worse, better or he would turn his legend into shame like snoop dogg did, rhymin for disco musicians. I think it's too hard to tell. I've got a confession to make, that.. probably if he wouldn't die i wouldn't even listen to him. It made him a big legend. Yes, he had great songs n shit but his death made that strange, mystical aura around him. Looking at his life from his death backwards.. he died in the most proper time. It made a big tension on everyone and left many questions and misteries, which most likely are as simple and normal as his life was.
His death at that time made ppl say he's "Black Jesus" etc.
And the only thing i couldn't agree is the Roman Polansy part. Roman is a jew, "adopted" by a Polish family. His roots n his world is here.. in Poland. USA wasn't his country really. He wasn't tied wit it in any form. Tupac was born in America and emigrating would be much pain for him. Probably such a pain that it would give him a lot to think.. to move abroad or to stay (To live and die in LA). Polansky wasn't really concerned by America.
Tho, i think that Dante's post was amazing. I haven't thought bout most of the things that would surely happen, because there were things that haven't left Pac a choice, n they shorten a range of possibilities to get out of his bad situation. It wouldn't be easy to do something out of his situation he was in. I think that many things that Pac was rymin bout were syndroms of paranoia. Pac wasn't untouchable at any moment of his life. If someone would like to shot him, he would do so just like it happened twice. Pac saying bout all those enemies that wanted to kill him, was the outcome of his phobias and paranoial state of mind, and it went deeper as the time went on. He was searching for a threat in everything, even in totally random songs, situations etc. So i don't really think that there is a theory at last 20% acurate bout what would Pac do now.
Dante's thread inspired me to write what I think. I had many thoughts on my mind before starting to write it down but i forgot while new ideas came to my mind so i probably haven't commented everything. By the way I hope I haven't wasted you're time.
His death at that time made ppl say he's "Black Jesus" etc.
And the only thing i couldn't agree is the Roman Polansy part. Roman is a jew, "adopted" by a Polish family. His roots n his world is here.. in Poland. USA wasn't his country really. He wasn't tied wit it in any form. Tupac was born in America and emigrating would be much pain for him. Probably such a pain that it would give him a lot to think.. to move abroad or to stay (To live and die in LA). Polansky wasn't really concerned by America.
Tho, i think that Dante's post was amazing. I haven't thought bout most of the things that would surely happen, because there were things that haven't left Pac a choice, n they shorten a range of possibilities to get out of his bad situation. It wouldn't be easy to do something out of his situation he was in. I think that many things that Pac was rymin bout were syndroms of paranoia. Pac wasn't untouchable at any moment of his life. If someone would like to shot him, he would do so just like it happened twice. Pac saying bout all those enemies that wanted to kill him, was the outcome of his phobias and paranoial state of mind, and it went deeper as the time went on. He was searching for a threat in everything, even in totally random songs, situations etc. So i don't really think that there is a theory at last 20% acurate bout what would Pac do now.
Dante's thread inspired me to write what I think. I had many thoughts on my mind before starting to write it down but i forgot while new ideas came to my mind so i probably haven't commented everything. By the way I hope I haven't wasted you're time.
yeah i definitely understand your point. i guess the only think tying roman to the states was sharon tate, and after the manson family killed her and his unborn child i can understand his lack of affinity for the country. my analogy was to the point that his films are celebrated globally as amazing cinema (on a woody allen, spielberg level) and especially here, but due to his liking young girls we do not even acknowledge that he exists. it's possible that pac, if he fled the law of the land, may face the same wrath by interscope and the powers that controlled his music.
by all means this thread is all about what if's and so there's not right answer. even more intriguing would be how pac may have changed had he been shot and lived in vegas, all the while knowing that jail was lurking in the shadows.
in many ways it's somewhat like the bruce lee story. pac and bruce were both the masters of what they did and cult legends, and both were taken from us by rather freak incidents (though pac's could have been much more predicted). bruce lee too felt death in the shadows coming for him sooner than later, and that motivated him to surpass the human denominator of his peers.
by all means this thread is all about what if's and so there's not right answer. even more intriguing would be how pac may have changed had he been shot and lived in vegas, all the while knowing that jail was lurking in the shadows.
in many ways it's somewhat like the bruce lee story. pac and bruce were both the masters of what they did and cult legends, and both were taken from us by rather freak incidents (though pac's could have been much more predicted). bruce lee too felt death in the shadows coming for him sooner than later, and that motivated him to surpass the human denominator of his peers.
Whoopty whoo, nice thread and great replies. Another thing to think about would be the difficulty of living a normal life (much less a celebrity one) after the shooting. I don't think anyone could survive having a lung taken out as well as that many bullet wounds without developing some serious psychological problems. Remember how the first shooting already made him paranoid? That one was miniscule in comparison to Vegas and had Pac survived, it wouldn't be a surprise to see his talent and charisma transform into bitterness and paranoia. He probably would have turned into a recluse.
And to that comment Dante made about him moving to the grey skied UK instead of Canada, that would have been a horrible mistake. Had he moved to BC, I could have been hired to be his professional blunt server. That's right, chronic on a silver platter instead of tea and crumpets.
> Dante
And to that comment Dante made about him moving to the grey skied UK instead of Canada, that would have been a horrible mistake. Had he moved to BC, I could have been hired to be his professional blunt server. That's right, chronic on a silver platter instead of tea and crumpets.
excellent thread, got many of us thinking, great posts, i enjoyed dante's cause it was mainly based off facts. As was said, this thread is based off what if's and there is no right answer. You must take everything for what it's worth and let reality influence us more than imagination.... that being said it wasn't likely (although possible) that pac would've dropped 5 more albums, all topping the previous release and continue a legendary rise. An imprisoned or exiled pac, although thought provoking and intriguing, in reality, would not "improve" his image, but more than likely hurt everything he was. I believe everything happens for a reason, and although of course never wish death, I truly think pac would have rather died as he was than return to prison or be pursued as a felon.. yes, i believe in many ways pacs legend was absolutely cultivated through his death and yes- the dk7 album was that much better (all time greatest album)
and you have to take other examples- although unlikely because of his talent, pac could have fallen off (look at the infamous examples still relevant in hip hop today)
and you have to take other examples- although unlikely because of his talent, pac could have fallen off (look at the infamous examples still relevant in hip hop today)
Yeah they both knew they'll die at young age. That's probably why they were doin so much in a short period of time.
What would Pac do now is a question without an answer and sadly we won't ever find it out. We have to face it tho that if Pac was still alive there is a great chance that he wouldn't be recognized as such a legend. It is more than possible that he would fall down.
I think he died in the most proper time. After recording All eyez on me and 7 day theory he havent recorded any great song actually. All eyez on me was the bomb. Legendary album. Makaveli was great too. There would be probably 1 good album after that. Most of the song leaked to internet aren't that great really. I just hope that Amaru is sleeping on those better ones.
What would Pac do now is a question without an answer and sadly we won't ever find it out. We have to face it tho that if Pac was still alive there is a great chance that he wouldn't be recognized as such a legend. It is more than possible that he would fall down.
I think he died in the most proper time. After recording All eyez on me and 7 day theory he havent recorded any great song actually. All eyez on me was the bomb. Legendary album. Makaveli was great too. There would be probably 1 good album after that. Most of the song leaked to internet aren't that great really. I just hope that Amaru is sleeping on those better ones.
i think a lot of the unreleased songs are great and better than a lot of the stuff released on his albums before he died. i also thought pac was the greatest rapper ever before he even died. i don't really know how it feels to only listen to pac just cause he died cause i was bumpin him since 93-94. i really think though that a lot of his unreleased songs are waaaay better than most of all eyez on me which i think is an overrated album. some may listen to pac cause he died but i listen to pac for his message and emotion. a lot of his unreleased songs are amazing to me. so i completely disagree that he wouldn't have any good songs after makaveli. i just listen to music for the music though not for image reasons like a lot of peeps do. peace
well I agree with you that Pac's death probably did increase people's knowledge on him and record sales. But he was not here to enjoy the sucess of sales and the increased awareness. Now I don't know the jail situation but Pac would have used his increased awareness to his advantage by gettin his belief's across the nations. So without him enjoying his success it was not good for him, Tupac Shakur
i personally rank all eyez as one of pac's worst albums simply because of the fact it's so diluted with guest appearances and the theme is mostly a party vibe, as opposed to his albums before it. i can appreciate the commercial recipe, however, and gotta give props on that. one of the most defining albums of 90's hip hop.
I'm not really sure if it was better. While I agree with a lot of the posts and appreciate the interesting responses, I feel that it would've been better for Pac to have survived not just for us but for himself.
Yes, Pac probably would've had to serve some time for not fulfilling his community service requirement, but it's not like that would've landed him in jail forever. And regarding the pending rape case, I think Pac's appeal might've had a decent chance at getting him out.
I don't think him beating down Orlando Anderson would've gotten him into much legal trouble. Remember, when questioned, Orlando didn't want to file a report or press charges (because you know that's not how they deal with problems like these). I don't think that your average guy watching the security cameras in a hotel would realize that the guys are from the Death Row entourage (yes, we recognize Pac and Suge, but only because we know it's them), and had Pac not been shot that night, the camera footage wouldn't have been reviewed the way it was, and Suge probably wouldn't have been busted for parole violation either.
In 1996, I'd say American pop culture was beginning to accept Pac. Although like Dante pointed out, he was often a target, that mostly applies to his character between 1991 and 1994 when he was the militant, pro-black, cop-shooting, lawsuit-collecting, potty-mouthed thug accused of sexual assault. During his Death Row days, he was more in control of his public image. Rather than being criticized by all sorts of politicians (Dan Quayle, Bob Dole, etc.), the only major display of disapproval of his music at that point was by DeLores Tucker. Rather than getting his movie roles revoked, he was being given opportunities for roles expanding beyond the typical ghetto characters he brilliantly portrayed in his early career. Even though Gridlock'd and Gang Related weren't box office hits, it gave Pac a chance to show that he could really act, and not just as a crazy nigga with a gun, he could play a humorous musician trying to get clean or a corrupt cop questioning his own methods. Even one of the judges who was sentencing him for something in 1996 said that he believed Pac had a bright future. (I don't remember it exactly, but I thought I read something along those lines in the VIBE biography of Pac.) And while I clearly don't believe Pac was going to run for any elected offices, it's pretty obvious that he was still going to be political in his own way by speaking his mind in his music and during interviews, both of which were highly aired by MTV in 1996. In addition, he had plans of doing good for the community through community centers and various activities targeted at at-risk youths, both of which would look favorable on his part, especially if he were facing a judge for whatever charges. And I think Pac had access to proven, much stronger legal firepower at that point compared to before Death Row.
I think Pac would've calmed down into 1997 as far as his rap beefs went. Pac said it himself in his interview with Angie Martinez that he wanted to just calm down and start fulfilling his heart's ambitions as a family man, but only after his agenda of "riding" was completed. Biggie wasn't interested in perpetuating the beef (to the dismay of his Junior M.A.F.I.A. cronies), Mobb Deep didn't put out any replies until after Pac died, Nas made it clear to Pac that he didn't want beef but alliance rather, Jay-Z was stil up-and-coming (since at the time he was mostly just known for "Ain't No Nigga"). The way things stood, Pac was the victor from a hip-hop standpoint, and even in the event of his enemies responding, Pac would've dug deeper into the depths of his mind and dropped some harder disses along with a few lyrical surprises. Keep in mind that toward the end, Pac began to more effectively utilize lyrical tools while incorporating them with his own raw emotion.
Hopefully I didn't go too far off into a tangent. I'm in my hotel room in Vegas, trying to kick this response out as quickly as possible while finishing my drink before I go out with my buddies and lose some more money at the tables.
Yes, Pac probably would've had to serve some time for not fulfilling his community service requirement, but it's not like that would've landed him in jail forever. And regarding the pending rape case, I think Pac's appeal might've had a decent chance at getting him out.
I don't think him beating down Orlando Anderson would've gotten him into much legal trouble. Remember, when questioned, Orlando didn't want to file a report or press charges (because you know that's not how they deal with problems like these). I don't think that your average guy watching the security cameras in a hotel would realize that the guys are from the Death Row entourage (yes, we recognize Pac and Suge, but only because we know it's them), and had Pac not been shot that night, the camera footage wouldn't have been reviewed the way it was, and Suge probably wouldn't have been busted for parole violation either.
In 1996, I'd say American pop culture was beginning to accept Pac. Although like Dante pointed out, he was often a target, that mostly applies to his character between 1991 and 1994 when he was the militant, pro-black, cop-shooting, lawsuit-collecting, potty-mouthed thug accused of sexual assault. During his Death Row days, he was more in control of his public image. Rather than being criticized by all sorts of politicians (Dan Quayle, Bob Dole, etc.), the only major display of disapproval of his music at that point was by DeLores Tucker. Rather than getting his movie roles revoked, he was being given opportunities for roles expanding beyond the typical ghetto characters he brilliantly portrayed in his early career. Even though Gridlock'd and Gang Related weren't box office hits, it gave Pac a chance to show that he could really act, and not just as a crazy nigga with a gun, he could play a humorous musician trying to get clean or a corrupt cop questioning his own methods. Even one of the judges who was sentencing him for something in 1996 said that he believed Pac had a bright future. (I don't remember it exactly, but I thought I read something along those lines in the VIBE biography of Pac.) And while I clearly don't believe Pac was going to run for any elected offices, it's pretty obvious that he was still going to be political in his own way by speaking his mind in his music and during interviews, both of which were highly aired by MTV in 1996. In addition, he had plans of doing good for the community through community centers and various activities targeted at at-risk youths, both of which would look favorable on his part, especially if he were facing a judge for whatever charges. And I think Pac had access to proven, much stronger legal firepower at that point compared to before Death Row.
I think Pac would've calmed down into 1997 as far as his rap beefs went. Pac said it himself in his interview with Angie Martinez that he wanted to just calm down and start fulfilling his heart's ambitions as a family man, but only after his agenda of "riding" was completed. Biggie wasn't interested in perpetuating the beef (to the dismay of his Junior M.A.F.I.A. cronies), Mobb Deep didn't put out any replies until after Pac died, Nas made it clear to Pac that he didn't want beef but alliance rather, Jay-Z was stil up-and-coming (since at the time he was mostly just known for "Ain't No Nigga"). The way things stood, Pac was the victor from a hip-hop standpoint, and even in the event of his enemies responding, Pac would've dug deeper into the depths of his mind and dropped some harder disses along with a few lyrical surprises. Keep in mind that toward the end, Pac began to more effectively utilize lyrical tools while incorporating them with his own raw emotion.
Hopefully I didn't go too far off into a tangent. I'm in my hotel room in Vegas, trying to kick this response out as quickly as possible while finishing my drink before I go out with my buddies and lose some more money at the tables.
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