Russia in Ukraine

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
https://off-guardian.org/2022/06/24/is-roe-v-wade-really-about-abortion/

At the end of the Cold War, Russia was economically raped and globally humiliated. It came within inches of shattering into a dozen or more failed states. As the big money players head East, and the hegemonic powers turn from the US Empire to a new globalist powerbase, you have to wonder if the US is destined for the same fate.

Just as the USSR had to fail, and be seen to fail pour encourager les autres, perhaps the US – with its history of individualism and personal liberty – is considered surplus to requirements in the new age of faux collectivism.

Whatever America became at its Imperial zenith, its constitutional foundation has always arguably been the most egalitarian on Earth. Could it be that those ideas enshrined in the Bill of Rights are considered an impediment to the “progressive” New World Order?

The US falling into failed statehood could even act as a moral lesson to the rest of the world, and be held up as a warning about what can happen when “liberty is taken too far”, or when people are allowed to “selfishly put their own rights ahead of the public good”.

Perhaps the US being torn apart – or encouraged to tear itself apart – is key to bringing about the next stage of the great reset.

One thing is for sure, no matter the endgame, US politics are dry tinder piled high, waiting for a spark.

***

Give a dog a bone and he think he Cujo...

The bit around the US is actually something I think about a lot. When your country was founded, the founding fathers put a lot of legislation in place to ensure it was better than the country whose laws you mostly adopted. You made sure your head of state and head of church were separate as an example. And the individual control of each state is also very interesting. But it means that as a nation, you somewhat lack an aligned identity. The USA is extremely divided at this point in time. Also, the founding fathers tried to reduce religion's control over politics, and yet today it has more control than ever... In the UK our head of state is also the head of church, yet the country's apathy towards religion is greater than ever with mostly agnostic and atheist views across the UK. I reluctantly attended a christening a few weeks ago. It was in this beautiful 11th century church. The whole congregation were there. 5 people. All over 70 years old. It was quite sad.
 
They are just lying as usual. You’re used to it. You pretend it’s to be expected. You’ve forgotten that it wasn’t always so. Soon, it will matter.

https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/the-last-days-of-joe-biden/

Whose idea was it to send the wind-up doll president called “Joe Biden” to Saudi Arabia…?

It’s like our country is trapped on one of those swirling carnival rides beloved of the county fairs… only, the felonious mutt who runs the ride has nodded off in a fentanyl delirium with the motor running at maximum speed… and the children-of-all-ages locked in the pods of this infernal machine shriek and vomit with each sickening rotation… as the half-century-old swing arms groan and wobble from metal fatigue on their squealing pivots… and suddenly comes a deafening crunch of gnashed gears, the smell of burning oil, and the pathetic whimpering of the nearly dead.

That’s us. Some terrible midsummer accident-of-state has befallen the USA Carnival, and most are too dazed to know it. Whose idea was it to send the wind-up doll president called “Joe Biden” to Saudi Arabia? I can just imagine what went on in the chamber in private with “JB” and MBS (Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman), virtual autocrat of the oil-soaked desert land. The American visitor muttered something about wanting an ice-cream cone before dropping into a catatonic thousand-yard stare.

How does this thing work?” MBS asks his chief vizier, the foreign minister (in Arabic, of course), gesticulating disdainfully at the ghostly figure sunk in the plush camel-hair armchair yards away. “Joe Biden” sits motionless. Someone has forgotten to rewind him, some “aide” who carries the president’s Adderall. Foreign Minister Faisal bin Farhan Al-Saud tells the boss, “We’ll make up some camel-dung for release to CNN and friends. They’ll fall for anything.”

It’s like a crime scene where the forensic experts have entered. The Saudi leader and his entourage only hang around the room for three minutes until the US State Department shoots enough photos to prove that “JB” was there and not stuffed in the basement of his Delaware beach house for the weekend, as usual. The American news media gets briefed: Saudi Arabia graciously agrees to bump up its oil production somewhere in the 2025-2027 time-frame — a triumph for US diplomacy, the networks are informed. Air Force One wings home through clouds of despair. The White House team members spend the flight updating their resumés.

I think we have witnessed “Joe Biden’s” final appearance at any world-stage event. He can do no more for the Party of Chaos. It has done what it can to wreck the joint with him as the pretend head-of-state. The Ukraine gambit is a bust, a foolish miscalculation that was obvious from the start. All it accomplished was to reveal the pitiful dependence of our European allies on Russian oil and gas, leaving their economies good and truly scuppered without it. The Russians end up with control of the Black Sea and probably the Ukraine bread-basket as well. So, now, Europe will starve and freeze.

Did they really want to commit suicide like that? Do the populations of Germany, France, Italy, the Netherlands, Spain, and the rest just aim to roll into oblivion? Probably not. Rather, we are entering the season of upended governments. The Schwabenklausian stooges implanted everywhere will be overthrown, NATO and the Euro Union will dissolve in impotent ignominy, and the various countries involved will have to renegotiate their destinies, forgoing US advice and coercion. They might even become adversaries of the USA, not allies. Did you forget we fought two wars against Germany not so long ago? And all those countries have been fighting each other since the Bronze Age, too.

History never stops reminding us what a prankster it is. A strange and terrible inversion has occurred in this Fourth Turning. Somehow, Mr. Putin’s Russia is left to represent what remains of international rule-of-law while the western democracies sink deeper into a morass of deranged despotism. Anyway, they are too busy conducting war against their own people to even pretend to assist their Ukrainian proxies. “Joe Biden” crammed nearly $60-billion into the Ukraine money laundering machine since February, which will just spew hallucinated capital back out into increasingly disordered financial markets. Look: the indexes are up world-wide this morning. Why? Because global business is so good? I don’t think so.

Moving toward autumn, what we have to look forward to is the blatant desperation of the claque behind “Joe Biden.” Their propaganda machine is going all-out on climate change and renewed Covid hysteria. There are always heat-waves in midsummer. CNN acts shocked that it’s over 100-degrees in Texas. Really? Never seen that before? Meanwhile, behind the news about emerging Omicron sub-variants, the vaccine injuries and deaths mount and the CDC pretends not to notice. They are just lying as usual. You’re used to it. You pretend it’s to be expected. You’ve forgotten that it wasn’t always so. Soon, it will matter.
I personally think we're beyond the "always heat-waves in summer" talking point.

On the other hand, maybe the internet is right, the permafrost will come back, methane will bubble back into the tundras and we get an ice age soon!!
 
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Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
They are just lying as usual. You’re used to it. You pretend it’s to be expected. You’ve forgotten that it wasn’t always so. Soon, it will matter.

https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/the-last-days-of-joe-biden/



I personally think we're beyond the "always heat-waves in summer" talking point.

On the other hand, maybe the internet is right, the permafrost will come back, methane will bubble back into the tundras and we get an ice age soon!!

I think it's ignorant to think we can continue to release huge amounts of carbon into the atmosphere and think it will have no impact
 
I think it's ignorant to think we can continue to release huge amounts of carbon into the atmosphere and think it will have no impact
I'm not sure if it's entirely carbon emissions but the change is already apparent and the feedback lag will likely persist for our lifetimes. Wavy jet streams, atmospheric rivers, severe rain fall in Greenland. But if you noticed, we were able to greatly reduce carbon emissions, but the felt consequences were not so good for many people and right now everybody is scrambling to get cheaper emissions - that's what we do. :oops:
 

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
I'm not sure if it's entirely carbon emissions but the change is already apparent and the feedback lag will likely persist for our lifetimes. Wavy jet streams, atmospheric rivers, severe rain fall in Greenland. But if you noticed, we were able to greatly reduce carbon emissions, but the felt consequences were not so good for many people and right now everybody is scrambling to get cheaper emissions - that's what we do. :oops:

I appreciate all of that. But there is definitely a need to reduce emissions and capture carbon otherwise we will greatly accelerate a huge number of areas that will be uninhabitable. Also... Water will be in great demand again. The UK will be the power of the world as we start to export water like the Saudis export oil.
 
I've read theories - something about depopulating North America, turning it back to nature. Dismantling the US war machine thus the oil industry and development of Eurasian trade.
 
Alexander Dugin

The fact is that the only branch of the US government that has not yet discredited itself was until recently the courts. Their authority was unquestionable for all political forces. It is believed that corruption and ideological lobbying in the judiciary failed to take complete control. And now the judges appointed under Trump have made their move. All this requires very serious reflection.

The fact is that there is not just one American state, but two countries and two nations with this name and this is becoming more and more evident. It is not even a question of Republicans and Democrats, whose conflict is becoming increasingly bitter. It is the fact that there is a deeper division in American society.

Half of the US population is an advocate of pragmatism. This means that for them there is only one yardstick: it works or it doesn't work, it works/it doesn't work. That is all. And no dogma either about the subject or the object. Everyone can see himself as whatever he wants, including Elvis Presley or Father Christmas, and if it works, no one dares to object. It is the same with the outside world: there are no inviolable laws, do what you want with the outside world, but if it responds harshly, that is your problem. There are no entities, only interactions. This is the basis of Native American identity, it is the way Americans themselves have traditionally understood liberalism: as freedom to think what you want, to believe what you want, and to behave as you want. Of course, if it comes to conflict, the freedom of one is limited by the freedom of the other, but without trying you cannot know where the fine line is. Try it, maybe it will work.

That is how American society has been up to a certain point. Here, banning abortion, allowing abortion, sex change, punishing sex change, gay parades or neo-Nazi parades were all possible, nothing was turned away at the door, the decision could be anything, and the courts, relying on a multitude of unpredictable criteria, precedents and considerations, were the last resort to decide, in problematic cases, what worked/doesn't work. This is the mysterious side of the Americans, completely misunderstood by Europeans, and also the key to their success: they have no boundaries, which means they go where they want until someone stops them, and that is exactly what works.

But in the American elite, which is made up of people from a wide variety of backgrounds, at some point a critically large number of non-Americans have accumulated. They are predominantly Europeans, often from Russia. Many are ethnically Jewish but imbued with European or Russian-Soviet principles and cultural codes. They brought a different culture and philosophy to the United States. They did not understand or accept American pragmatism at all, seeing it only as a backdrop for their own advancement. That is, they took advantage of American opportunities, but did not intend to adopt a libertarian logic unrelated to any hint of totalitarianism. In reality, it was these alien elites who hijacked the old American democracy. It was they who took the helm of globalist structures and gradually seized power in the United States.

These elites, often left-liberal, sometimes openly Trotskyist, have brought with them a position that is deeply alien to the American spirit: the belief in linear progress. Progress and pragmatism are incompatible. If progress works, fine. If not, it must be abandoned. Here is the law of pragmatism: it works/doesn't work. If you want to move forward, move forward, if you want the opposite, no problem, that's freedom the American way.

However, the emigrants from the Old World brought with them very different attitudes. For them, progress was a dogma. All history was seen as continuous improvement, as a continuous process of emancipation, improvement, development and accumulation of knowledge. Progress was a philosophy and a religion. In the name of progress, which included a continuous increase in individual freedoms, technical development and the abolition of traditions and taboos, everything was possible and necessary, and it no longer mattered whether it worked or not. What mattered was progress.

This, however, represented a completely new interpretation of liberalism for the American tradition. The old liberalism argued: no one can ever impose anything on me. The new liberalism responded: a culture of abolition, shaming, total elimination of old habits, sex change, freedom to dispose of the human foetus (pro-choice), equal rights for women and races is not just a possibility, it is a necessity. The old liberalism said: be what you want, as long as it works. The new one replied: you have no right not to be a liberal. If you are not a progressive, you are a Nazi and must be destroyed. Everything must be sacrificed in the name of freedom, LGBT+, transgender and artificial intelligence.

The conflict between the two societies - the old libertarian, pragmatic one and the new neoliberal, progressive one - has steadily escalated over the past decades and culminated in the Trump presidency. Trump has embodied one America and his globalist democratic opponents the other. The civil war of philosophies has reached a critical point. And it is really a question of the interpretation of freedom. The old America sees individual freedom as that which excludes any external prescription, any demand to use it only this way and no other, only for this and nothing else. Only for abortion and gay pride, for example, and never for banning abortion or demonising perverts. New America, on the other hand, insists that freedom requires violence against those who do not understand it well enough. Which means that freedom must have a normative interpretation and it is up to the neo-liberals themselves to determine how and to whom they use it and how they interpret it. The old liberalism is libertarian. The new is blatantly totalitarian.

And it is in this context that the 1973 US Supreme Court decision on abortion Roe v. Wade must be seen. It is in favour of the old liberalism and pragmatism. Note that it does not prohibit abortion, but merely states that there is no clear solution at the level of federal law. States can solve the problem as they wish, but it means, no more and no less, that time is reversible. You can move in one direction, progressive, or you can move in the opposite direction. As long as it works. So it is not about abortion at all. It is about understanding the nature of time. It is about the deepest divisions in American society. It is about one America going to war with another America more and more openly.

The Supreme Court is now overturning the totalitarian dictatorial strategy of the neo-liberal globalist elites, who act - a bit like the Bolsheviks in Russia - in the name of the future. Progress justifies everything. Until then, all decisions have only gone in one direction: in favour of individualism, egocentrism and hedonism, and suddenly the Supreme Court takes an abrupt step backwards. Why, was it allowed to do so? And the almost desperate old Americans, pragmatists and libertarians rejoice: the freedom to do what you want, not what the progressives and technocrats say, to go in any direction, not just where the globalists are forcibly sending us, has triumphed again, and Missouri's brave attorney general has already shown what can be done. Bravo! It is a pragmatic revolution, an American-style conservative revolution.

Of course, all the globalist progressive crap is about to go down the drain. The old America has in a way counter-attacked the new America.

Translation by Lorenzo Maria Pacini

https://katehon.com/en/article/united-states-court-against-ideology-progress
 
The perplexing thing, only explained by the rise of celebrity culture, the Internet, and the dumbing-down of the general public, is how Trump, a billionaire reality-TV buffoon, could garner their devoted allegiance. A man so different from them, many of whom come from states with large rural populations and Trump a quintessential New Yorker who probably never got his hands in the earth. Of course, he said many of the things they were desperate to hear about making the U.S.A. great again, no foreign entanglements, etc., many appealing things after they spent so many years hearing the politicians talk the same jive talk about invading this country and that and fighting Russia to the death. His message appealed to many. They bought his spiel as if he would save them; a claim that all politicians use, but he was touching the suppressed underbelly of the American delusion. An upper class politician talking about, among others things, class matters.

Then there is the liberal counterpoint to Trump, which is essentially the Democratic Party’s interpretation that Trump represents a shocking neo-fascist resurrection of the historically racist, isolationist strain in American history. This position is ironically consonant with the extremist 1950s claims of Senator Joseph McCarthy and his ilk – Nixon and Trump’s lawyer friend Roy Cohn, who represented McCarthy – who claimed there were communists under every bed and the Russians (U.S.S.R.) were coming to seize our liberties. The accusations against Trump, being led by The New York Times, the Washington Post, CNN, etc., are that he is a Russian-connected operative, a stooge, and that he is intent on undermining American democracy and establishing an American totalitarianism; that he stole the 2016 election with the help of Russia; and that he always has been in cahoots with Vladimir Putin. The liberals who hold this assessment of Trump, what some critics call “Trump derangement syndrome,” are as devoted to their assessments as are Trump’s supporters. Both groups look to Trump as an angel or devil; he transfixes both in equal measure.

Aside from those who see Trump as a savior or Satan, there are various other opinions of him that cross ideological divides. Most are equivocal, at best. Some leftists admire him for his less belligerent stance toward Russia and understand the totally debunked Russia-gate accusations against him and the impeachment proceedings as confirmation of his sincerity, although they do not endorse some of his other positions. Others view him as the personification of the rise of neo-fascist, far-right Christian fundamentalism, while also seeing Biden and the Democrats as perfidious fools leading the country to disaster. Some conservatives like aspects of his agenda, as do a small number of libertarians, but they remain very wary. There are many variations on these opinions with most falling somewhere between a rock and a hard place. A sort of pox on both contestants in the electoral game, but most are based on the presupposition that the show must go on, even as both sides claim electoral fraud when their side loses. This is the frame within which impressions of Trump and his opponents are formed.

Rarely is it considered – and this is the take of a tiny minority – that with the rise of celebrity culture, pseudo-events, image-making, and the vast, sophisticated, electronic, intelligence, propaganda apparatus, that Donald Trump is not the impressions he gives off but a creation of hidden forces manipulating reality to an unimaginable extent. That Trump is not the arch-enemy of Biden or Clinton or any Democrat, but that he is a partner in a great game of deception in which the good guys and bad guys play their parts for the Great Director. It is worth remembering what Barbara Honegger, who was present in the West Wing of the White House in February 1981, overheard that day:

We’ll know our disinformation is complete when everything the American public believes is false. – William J. Casey, CIA Director/​

It is also worth considering a different version of the point the psychologist James Hillman and the writer Michael Ventura raised with their book We’ve Had a Hundred Years of Psychotherapy and the World’s Getting Worse. People might ask themselves if over the past fifty or five years their lives have gotten better or worse under all the American presidents, including Biden and Trump. The answer is obvious. Therefore, maybe it is time to imagine the most extreme possibility: That Casey’s statement has come to fruition.

https://dissidentvoice.org/2022/08/impressions-of-donald-trump/


It is not just painters and comedians who do impressions.
 

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
The perplexing thing, only explained by the rise of celebrity culture, the Internet, and the dumbing-down of the general public, is how Trump, a billionaire reality-TV buffoon, could garner their devoted allegiance. A man so different from them, many of whom come from states with large rural populations and Trump a quintessential New Yorker who probably never got his hands in the earth. Of course, he said many of the things they were desperate to hear about making the U.S.A. great again, no foreign entanglements, etc., many appealing things after they spent so many years hearing the politicians talk the same jive talk about invading this country and that and fighting Russia to the death. His message appealed to many. They bought his spiel as if he would save them; a claim that all politicians use, but he was touching the suppressed underbelly of the American delusion. An upper class politician talking about, among others things, class matters.

Then there is the liberal counterpoint to Trump, which is essentially the Democratic Party’s interpretation that Trump represents a shocking neo-fascist resurrection of the historically racist, isolationist strain in American history. This position is ironically consonant with the extremist 1950s claims of Senator Joseph McCarthy and his ilk – Nixon and Trump’s lawyer friend Roy Cohn, who represented McCarthy – who claimed there were communists under every bed and the Russians (U.S.S.R.) were coming to seize our liberties. The accusations against Trump, being led by The New York Times, the Washington Post, CNN, etc., are that he is a Russian-connected operative, a stooge, and that he is intent on undermining American democracy and establishing an American totalitarianism; that he stole the 2016 election with the help of Russia; and that he always has been in cahoots with Vladimir Putin. The liberals who hold this assessment of Trump, what some critics call “Trump derangement syndrome,” are as devoted to their assessments as are Trump’s supporters. Both groups look to Trump as an angel or devil; he transfixes both in equal measure.

Aside from those who see Trump as a savior or Satan, there are various other opinions of him that cross ideological divides. Most are equivocal, at best. Some leftists admire him for his less belligerent stance toward Russia and understand the totally debunked Russia-gate accusations against him and the impeachment proceedings as confirmation of his sincerity, although they do not endorse some of his other positions. Others view him as the personification of the rise of neo-fascist, far-right Christian fundamentalism, while also seeing Biden and the Democrats as perfidious fools leading the country to disaster. Some conservatives like aspects of his agenda, as do a small number of libertarians, but they remain very wary. There are many variations on these opinions with most falling somewhere between a rock and a hard place. A sort of pox on both contestants in the electoral game, but most are based on the presupposition that the show must go on, even as both sides claim electoral fraud when their side loses. This is the frame within which impressions of Trump and his opponents are formed.

Rarely is it considered – and this is the take of a tiny minority – that with the rise of celebrity culture, pseudo-events, image-making, and the vast, sophisticated, electronic, intelligence, propaganda apparatus, that Donald Trump is not the impressions he gives off but a creation of hidden forces manipulating reality to an unimaginable extent. That Trump is not the arch-enemy of Biden or Clinton or any Democrat, but that he is a partner in a great game of deception in which the good guys and bad guys play their parts for the Great Director. It is worth remembering what Barbara Honegger, who was present in the West Wing of the White House in February 1981, overheard that day:

We’ll know our disinformation is complete when everything the American public believes is false. – William J. Casey, CIA Director/​

It is also worth considering a different version of the point the psychologist James Hillman and the writer Michael Ventura raised with their book We’ve Had a Hundred Years of Psychotherapy and the World’s Getting Worse. People might ask themselves if over the past fifty or five years their lives have gotten better or worse under all the American presidents, including Biden and Trump. The answer is obvious. Therefore, maybe it is time to imagine the most extreme possibility: That Casey’s statement has come to fruition.

https://dissidentvoice.org/2022/08/impressions-of-donald-trump/


It is not just painters and comedians who do impressions.

As someone who is impartial to American politics, I would like to inform you that your country is mainly populated by idiots and both your main political parties are an absolute pile of shit. Similar to the UK, actually. I haven't voted for 20 years because I find it hard to pick between the two forms of torture
 
I think they call it democracy. Or bandwagonning.

Even White House spokes persons gets the concept wrong. In America, it’s all about protecting ideaologies that are considered to be minority - no matter how offended the majority may be. We also also quasi-free to criticize the shit out of those ideaologies. In theory!
 
On going…

Last week, according to SANA, more than 300 oil tankers were sent from the U.S.-controlled Syrian oil fields in Hasakah to U.S. bases in Iraq.

In Syria, people have struggled to secure gas for cooking and fuel for their cars and businesses. The scarcity of fuel also causes long daily power cuts.

On Aug. 8, the Syrian oil ministry said in a statement that U.S. forces were stealing 80 percent of Syria’s oil production.

U.S. forces and their mercenaries are stealing an average of 66,000 barrels of oil daily in Syria. It added that the country’s average daily oil production is estimated to have reached 80,000 barrels in the first half of 2022.

On Aug. 29, the Syrian oil ministry said in a statement that the U.S. practices in Syria, including its unlawful trafficking of Syrian oil, have so far caused direct and indirect losses of about 107.1 billion U.S. dollars to Syria’s oil and gas sectors.

718244EB-0103-46FF-8D9C-A659395AF3DD.jpeg


I see a few scenarios where this will lead.

One, is that the WEF crowd wins and depopulates the planet, and forces the remaining people into sophisticated prisons, as they continue to experiment on them to find a way to live forever and pursue transhumanistic goals.

Two, at some point the globalists realize they are losing control, back pedal, coopt the resistance, and we end up with a semblance of normality.

Three is that the globalists fail and it will all go to hell and the world turns into a dystopian Mad Max type of reality after civilization collapses.

Four, we see something similar to what we saw when the Roman Empire fell with pockets of civilization or freedom surviving an otherwise imprisoned planet. This scenario may actually occur if the globalists win or if everything collapses. They will be pockets of freedom or civilization from either chaos or totalitarianism.

Five, the globalist lose, are brought to justice, and Natural Rights are recognized as the only legitimate basis of government. There may be a few more scenarios that aren’t coming to mind, but one thing is for certain, barring the total implosion and destruction of human civilization, this war will last for decades and will involve all of humanity. The globalists are relentless and will periodically pull back pressure to habituate people to a new level of oppression, only to apply more pressure afterword.

Unfortunately, no one will be able to sit this one out.

https://josephsansone.substack.com/p/world-war-iii-has-already-begun
 
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Preach

Well-Known Member
Ze's failure to go full Reichstag.

Defense Department Records Reveal U.S. Funding of Anthrax Laboratory Activities in Ukraine
https://www.judicialwatch.org/dod-records-anthrax-lab/

The brilliant leaders of the west are upset that a coke-head "almost started WW3" :rolleyes: It's started already!


View attachment 653
I think part of what you're saying is going over my head. Flood what? Is that a reference to the dam they're afraid the Russians will blow up? Reichstag? Is this a reference to the Russian claim that Ukraine needs to be de-nazified? Cokehead? Because he's an actor? Western leaders are upset? Okay this one really throws me for a spin, who exactly? And how does this all come together? It's all too "meta", and I'm barely a scholar.. I can think of one western leader that spoke out critically against Ukraine, a single one. The other one lost the election and never was a leader. She's the leader of her political party though. I'm talking about the french chick. But so she lost. Which means her message, her opinion, was elected away by the people. And the other one, well... he could form a band with Donald Trump and Jair Bolsonaro. I pay close attention to this shit, it's right in our backyard so it's a personal interest of mine. Those are my proverbial brothers and sisters being murdered in cold blood. I'm pretty sure I'd get wind of it if there was a trend of western leaders being critical.

I can't speak for the entire west, but from my euro centric point of view, most people hold Zelensky in high regard. Not the least for sticking around when he could have fled. I think the only western leader that's sceptical is Victor Orban. Even Erdogan is playing ball with us, even though he's friends with and keeps meeting with Russian government officials. Almost the whole of EU (so most of the economies that make up the west, and NATO) is standing in solidarity with Ukraine. Even Norway, which some times feels like the US blew us out of their nose, has a tiny minority of people that think it's all a big conspiracy. But they are so miniscule they're negligible. We're talking maybe 2% of all people, or substantially less.

We talked about biolabs in the other thread. When I first heard the term I was thinking about biolabs as in "biolabs that develop biological weapons of mass destruction". I guess we should differ between biolabs that seek to develop biological weapons, and "mobile laboratories from DTRA with the goal of reinforcing the system of epidemiological surveillance in the Armed Forces of Ukraine", as the two are not the same discussion point.

The US had been heavily invested in Ukraine for some time when the war broke out, and you could spin that a lot of ways. You could say that it's proof that the US were using Ukraine as a pawn all a long, in some global game for domination. To me it just looks like what I would expect it to look like when an organization like NATO is flirting with a country that's not already a member, but wants to become one. You don't just bring them into the fold upon their first request of joining. I recently joined an order (for real lol) and it's kinda the same thing where you're kinda a member kinda not for a while until they let you in. You show some good will, they show some good will, but above all, you don't rush it. You keep your distance for a while, see how things go, and then after some period of time you escalate. Obviously it is in NATOs interests to expand further east, and Ukraine is a sizable country, so you could think of money spent there, and help given to them, as vetting before they become a full time member of NATO. It's building blocks to cement a foundation. Ukraine were willing to flirt with us all along. And by us I mean "NATO", so not just the US. I dunno why Hunter Biden was on the board of that power company, but that has nothing to do with biolabs. Are you saying that the US demanded that Hunter Biden be given a high ranking position, and also that the US were forcing Ukraine to have biological labs that were developing weapons... or what are you saying? This info is being presented in a kind of way as if it speaks for itself, but it really doesn't. What does it prove that the US were funding biological labs for epidemiological surveillance in Ukraine? And what does it prove that Joe Biden tried to use his leverage to secure his fuckup of a son a future? That the US were trying to develop biological weapons to use on the Russians? To use on Ukrainians that were pro-Russian? I dunno what the point of all this conspiracy noise is, but what is it you think's going on? We (NATO) are not forcing ourselves onto them, they have as much interest in being a part of NATO as NATO has an interest in having them as a member.

Russia is known for fighting dirty. If the US knew that a country they were looking to get into NATO might be threatened by a country that would be willing to use biological weapons (which I believe the Russians are ruthless enough to not give a shit about the consequences of) then funding biological research labs are a defensive measure. If the US were spending money to help ukrainians save ukrainian lives if Russia dropped a biological weapon, that's great. Fuck how happy I am that your country is playing the role it's doing.

There's a lot of shady shit out there in the world. But Ukraine 100% wanted to turn to the west. Free speech and free media are way more appealing than russian dictatorship. I dunno if we disagree about this or not, I just wanted to state it for the record. The US doesn't have to fool Ukrainians for Ukrainians to want to be a part of the western world. We didn't have to pay "the corrupt elite", against the wishes of the Ukrainian people, to get them to look to the west. This is not a case of the US inserting a puppet leadership and forcing the country's hand, the way the Russians have done and will continue to do in every area they gain control. Ukraine were already looking for a new friend, and the west was ready to be friendly. NATO wasn't forcefully expanding towards the East and using Ukraine - rather the contrary, Ukraine wanted out of a gridlock. I've met and spoken with refugees. Politics in eastern Europe is not like in the US. If you try to think from a US political point of view, and try to understand how people over there think about and practice political opinions, you're gonna get it wrong.

This narrative that the US is forcing themselves upon Ukraine is horse shit. Donald Trump almost fucked it all up. In fact, if not for Trump, the process of integrating Ukraine into the west would have been much further along by the point Russia was ready to invade. But the way he kept fucking things up and being a dick to the Ukrainian president was a hinderance for further progress. He probably didn't understand it at the time, but that's the problem having a populist leader. You don't hire the person with the winning personality to renovate your house, you hire the experienced carpenter. What the fuck the American people were thinking I do not know, but if they have their way, the US is gonna thrive in isolation for 15 years until the world beyond it changes so much you can no longer benefit from your role on the international scene. You might think that if someone like Trump comes along and takes the country out of the international politics game, it's gonna be better for you. And that might be true for a while. But look how Cuba's doing after decades of isolation. Granted, the US has a bigger landmass and more resources, so you'd be better off than Cuba. But the modern world is built on import/export, not isolation. Eventually, you would be poorer for it.

America doesn't have a choice in the matter, in other words, if it wants to maintain its way of life. It's not world-war 3. Let's not blow things out of proportion. There's a slew of well-run democracies in the world. The general statistical tendency seems to be that people live objectively better lives in democratic countries. There seems to be a general distaste for autocracies in those parts of the world where people enjoy freedom. Maybe what I'm about to say is too controversial, but Putin decided to change everything when he decided to change Russian law so he could stay in power indefinitely. Him and all the rich people around him decided to ruin their great nation when they stole billions from their people. They've been doing it for three decades or more. And that just builds on top of a history of economic corruption. They decided to invade Ukraine and claim Crimea a few years back. They are looking to join forces with China, the biggest dictatorship in the world. There are forces out there that still perpetuate evil and tyranny, and their armies make up the majority. The free peoples are a vast minority. This idea that NATO is aggressively expanding east is such a fucking weak argument. Unless you're saying tyranny is a legitimate system for managing a society. If you believe in freedom, you must believe that Ukraine wanted a different future than what their surrounding states can offer them. And you must above all believe that that's feasible for a nation to wish for, regardless of US influence.

(Shit, actually have to finish this post in a second post, I hit the symbol limit... End of part 1).
 
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Preach

Well-Known Member
Beginning of part 2:


If you let Russia take over the world outside your borders while you make your country great again, you're gonna be in a really shitty position vs. if you can have an alliance with 40 other western countries that you see eye to eye with, politically and ethically. And there's millions of us out here that want you to stay in the game. We're inviting you to come. We want you on the team. So give us biolabs, and F-35s, and come sail in our waters with your hangar ships. Yes please. Remember that 400 years ago (or whatever), you all came from over here. You're our long lost cousins thirty-six removed. We're you and you're us. Please don't let that fucking baldie unleash his Chechnyan rapists on our wives and daughters while they murder us dudes in the gruesomest ways after torturing us for fun.

This narrative that what the US is doing in Ukraine is super shady, that the US is trying to weaponize Ukraine to go to war with the Russians, or whatever the fuck the narrative is supposed to be, is upsetting. It's so far off. If you lived in a European country other than Hungary, you'd know just how far. The US, despite the inherent flaws of western society, is fighting a very important global scale battle against utter tyranny, and every sensible person out here is thankful for your protector role. And you would be remiss to think you're better served on your own. That would be like, how do you say... Pissing your pants to keep warm.
 
It's a Jesus meme, as in the biblical flood. It's a meme. lol
Reichstag is in reference to Nazi false flag to start a world conflict.

Ze's got to be on some kind of stimulant because he seems to confidently believe in the lies that come out of his mouth. He could just be a good ol' socipath too.

Why wouldn't politicians in the west be "politically" upset about a missle landing in Poland? They could have gone full 9/11 on this and frankly, I'm suprised they backtracked this soon.

Remind me who's sending the weapons to Ukraine, denying peace talks, pushing Putin hard and at the same time warning us that nuclear war could start in Europe! (Hint: It's the same people!)

In American politics "Defense" means "Offence".

Russians have provided their side of the story as far as the labs in Ukraine goes. Go look for it. I believe that it mentions a research of infecting migratory birds with viruses - does that sound like something any of the country in the west would allow in their backyard like the US is doing in Ukraine?

We know the Pentagon or whoever's in charge was collecting DNA samples in Afghanistan. The Russian claim of "collecting serum of ethinic Slavs" and sending it back to stateside? Plausible.

EcoHealth Alliance connected to the infamous lab in Wuhan? I think so.

With a huge benefit of the doubt, let's just say it was research to protect us from viruses - do it in Maryland where it belongs.

America is not, and shouldn't be the world's police.

Let's have a investigation, a world wide investigation into what they're really researching in these labs.

But we won't get one.

Neocons want to Balkanize Russia.

PS With the flagship sinking, the pipeline bombing, Crimean bridge attack and a couple of fuel depot attacks by Ukraine within Russian border (likely with NATO/US supplied weapons)- the Russians have been....... passive.
 
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